Minutes of the Forth RT Guest Conference. Date: 12/15/88 Time: 22:42EST Special guest: George Shaw Topic : 'SigForth ACM' The reasons, and expectations of the newly established Forth Special Interest Group of the Association for Computing Machinery The GEnie Forth RoundTable provided the first public forum among Forth users and FIG members for discussiing this entry with the professional user as its stated target. Attendees: [[Gary] GARY-S] [[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN] [[Len] NMORGENSTERN] [[Dennis] D.RUFFER] [[George] PRESS20] [[Alan F.] ATFURMAN] [[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS] [[PAUL@ICOM] PSNIVELY] Minutes: is here. <[Gary] GARY-S> I was hoping you'd show <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> I would nae miss it. <[Gary] GARY-S> Got something to say - help spread the word.. Hello Gary, Dave <[Gary] GARY-S> I just became fw on Wetware (415/753-5265) gars@wet.UUCP forth. conf couldn't miss George :-) <[Gary] GARY-S> good <[Gary] GARY-S> more the merrier is here. <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Hi Len <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Hi <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Heh...the SYSOP to Joe User ratio is 3/1... <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> brb <[Gary] GARY-S> Len - george speaks highly of you, sir <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Thanks! <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> So...Gary...Little Rock getting hyped up about the Cotton Bowl? <[Gary] GARY-S> sure - with Kenny a former player of the last Ark team to make number 1 <[Gary] GARY-S> Kenny Hatfield=coach <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Yeah. Are you going to be coming down to the conf? <[Gary] GARY-S> dunno yet <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Dave, I plan to be there. Where do I get a form? <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Requests for symposium information should be directed to: <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Dr. Paul Frenger or Mr. Rick Hoselton is here. <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Thanks, Dave. <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Technology Information Center, Inc. <[Gary] GARY-S> hey George - welcome <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> 2900 Wilcrest Drive #400 <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Houston, TX 77042 <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Telephone: (713) 952-1060 <[Gary] GARY-S> any last questions ? if not... <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> George..is it alright if I put up the photocopies I have of the call for papers (I only got the one copy of the call)? <[George] PRESS20> Fine with me GA <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Ok. <[Gary] GARY-S> lets get started then... <[Gary] GARY-S> This is a formal conference - no interlacing please... <[Gary] GARY-S> remember to make ok your first response... <[Gary] GARY-S> keeep it tight and end... <[Gary] GARY-S> partial sentences with three dots.. <[Gary] GARY-S> end with ga .. <[Gary] GARY-S> The GEnie Forth RoundTable is pleased to welcome... <[Gary] GARY-S> as this evening's special guest, George Shaw. ... <[Gary] GARY-S> George is owner of Shaw Laboratories, a custom... <[Gary] GARY-S> programming shop, dealing primarily in Forth applications. ... <[Gary] GARY-S> He has been programming in Forth for over ten years, ... <[Gary] GARY-S> was a member of the 83 Standards Committee, ... <[Gary] GARY-S> and is a current member of the X3/J14 Technical ... <[Gary] GARY-S> Committee charged with task of writing the ANS Forth. ... <[Gary] GARY-S> He has served as chapter chairman for Silicon Valley FIG, ... <[Gary] GARY-S> and is currently chairman of the North Bay FIG chapter. ... <[Gary] GARY-S> Mr. Shaw has twice served as chairman of Asilomar, and is... <[Gary] GARY-S> founder and chairman for the Forth Special Interest Group... <[Gary] GARY-S> of the Association for Computing Machinery, which will... <[Gary] GARY-S> be holding its first convention in Austin, TX in February. ... <[Gary] GARY-S> The topic tonight is 'SigForth ACM'. Introducing George Shaw. <[Gary] GARY-S> ga George <[George] PRESS20> We, (myself and others) started the ACM SIG to bring Forth .. <[George] PRESS20> into the professional computing arena... <[George] PRESS20> ACM is very visable in the universities and colleges... <[George] PRESS20> and is very well respected around the world. ... <[George] PRESS20> We felt that having a SIG would give Forth a large boost in image as a language ... <[George] PRESS20> for serious use by professionals. ... <[George] PRESS20> Thanks to Alan Furman for starting the whole thing... <[George] PRESS20> and analyzing the situation to give us direction ... <[George] PRESS20> and goals. I have a list of our initial projects ... <[George] PRESS20> which I would like to try to send in ... <[George] PRESS20> However, there are no periods (...) at the end of the ... <[George] PRESS20> lines, but the comm program should wait 5 seconds after each line... <[George] PRESS20> I will let you know when it is done ... <[George] PRESS20> here it comes ... <[George] PRESS20> Education: Moving Forth into the universities and <[George] PRESS20> colleges to create an awareness of Forth and a <[George] PRESS20> better supply of Forth programmers. <[George] PRESS20> not working as planned ... <[George] PRESS20> Gary, should I try it anyway ga <[Gary] GARY-S> yes - please do <[George] PRESS20> Education: Moving Forth into the universities and <[George] PRESS20> colleges to create an awareness of Forth and a <[George] PRESS20> better supply of Forth programmers. is here. <[George] PRESS20> <[George] PRESS20> "Forthics": Research to create a basic set of Forth <[George] PRESS20> programming ethics as well as management metrics to <[George] PRESS20> increase the success of Forth projects. <[George] PRESS20> <[George] PRESS20> Market: a study of the job requirements and the <[George] PRESS20> Forth programming skills available to determine <[George] PRESS20> trends in the Forth job marketplace and skills <[George] PRESS20> required for the future. <[George] PRESS20> <[George] PRESS20> Successes/Failures: a study of the historical <[George] PRESS20> applications of Forth to create an awareness of <[George] PRESS20> Forth's wide spread use and to determine what the <[George] PRESS20> characteristics and causes are for successes and <[George] PRESS20> failures. <[George] PRESS20> <[George] PRESS20> ANS Forth: participate through your SIGForth <[George] PRESS20> representative in the ANSForth committee to <[George] PRESS20> produce an American National Standard for Forth <[George] PRESS20> that everyone can use, <[George] PRESS20> <[George] PRESS20> State of the Industry: SIGForth periodically <[George] PRESS20> compiles surveys of the Forth industry to evaluate <[George] PRESS20> the status of the Forth product market, job market, <[George] PRESS20> workplace, education availability, job requirements <[George] PRESS20> etc. Participate in these surveys and be one of <[George] PRESS20> the first to reap their benefits through their <[George] PRESS20> publication in the SIGForth newsletter. <[George] PRESS20> thats it, sorry for the mess, computers never do what you tell them ... <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Came thru fine. <[George] PRESS20> Any questons. ga <[Gary] GARY-S> ga dave <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Well...I've been working from the inside to try and get Forth in here at UT... <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> ...but so far the only result is that I am recognized on sight by a large portion of the CS faculty as "the Forth fanatic" (no me an trick in a University of 50,000+). If UT is typical... <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> ...how do you plan to try and get this in to Universities? GA <[Gary] GARY-S> ga george <[George] PRESS20> I have Tom Hand, at the Florida Institute of Technology... <[George] PRESS20> working on compiling a list of universities and colleges... <[George] PRESS20> where Forth is currently taught so that we have examples ... <[George] PRESS20> and a syllabus for courses in Forth as they are applies to .. <[George] PRESS20> several different areas. We are planning on doing... <[George] PRESS20> a survey to 2500 university departments to determine their interest... <[Paul@ICOM] PSNIVELY> has left. <[George] PRESS20> and to offer our help in having Forth taught.... <[George] PRESS20> As for people viewing you as a Forth fanatic... <[George] PRESS20> all of us here have been through that (or are still ... <[George] PRESS20> there). the trick is to know 'C' and be able to give ... <[George] PRESS20> rational comparisons to Forth ('C' is Forth's most direct... <[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> !! <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> !! <[George] PRESS20> competitor). You don't want to come off as religious... <[George] PRESS20> otherwise they won't take you seriously... <[George] PRESS20> we must represent both strengths and weaknesses... <[George] PRESS20> otherwise we will not be believed. ga <[Gary] GARY-S> ga jax <[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> ok <[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> FIrst of all, we of the Forth community <[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> have reason to be grateful to ACM SIGForth ... <[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> for having found ... <[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> a channel for the boundless energies of Alan Furman ! :-) ..