Minutes of a special GEnie Forth RoundTable Conference with Dr. Sergei Baranoff of the Leningrad Institute for Informatics. Dr. Baranoff discusses Forth and computing in the Soviet Union and related issues. Entire contents of this transcript copyright (c) 1991 GEnie Forth RoundTable. The contents may be freely copied and distributed in whole or in part provided origination credit is included. Date: 06/20/91 Time: 22:29EDT Attendees: [JAX] [[Sergei] FIGGUEST] <== Special guest, Dr. Sergei Baranoff [D.RUFFER] [[Leonard] NMORGENSTERN] [[Wil] W.BADEN1] [GARY-S] <== SysOp Moderator Shall we begin gentlemen ? <[Sergei] FIGGUEST> sure The GEnie Forth RoundTable is pleased to welcome as ... tonight's guest, Dr. Sergei Baranoff. Dr. Baranoff ... learned Forth in 1981 at the University of Leningrad ... when creating a cross-compiler for the i8080 that was ... widely manufactured in the USSR at that time. Since ... 1983 Sergei has worked at the Institute of Informatics, ... USSR Academy of Sciences, using Forth professionally ... for designing software instruments and promoting Forth ... among the Soviet programmers.In 1988 he published a first ... Russian book on Forth that made the language popular. Now ... he coordinates activities in investigating new programming... approaches using Forth and heavily participates in .... creating a Russian Forth Standard. Please welcome ... Dr. Sergie Baranoff who will be discussing Forth ... and computing in the USSR. .. .. .. .. .. .. ga Sergei <[Sergei] FIGGUEST> The most characteristic features of the current state of art in computer programming in the USSR is... 1) Solid math background of many of the programmers;.... 2) Limited hardware resources;.... 3) Relativly small salaries for doing new research.... 4) Constant interest in doing this sort of work. .... Now Forth becomes more and more popular, as PC become more.. available. Thanks to the International Forth community.... we receive a great moral support in our activities.... I'm glad to report that in April 1991 the 1st Forth conference was held in Leningrad with over 120 attendees from 26 cities and the Soviet JFAR came into being.... Now 2 students from Leningrad Univ are in Rochester and then would go to Dallas, TX to learn practical Forth programming in New Micros, Inc. We expect a return visit this year. Sergei - will the Leningrad proceedings be available in English ? <[Sergei] FIGGUEST> The SJFAR is planned to be translated into English partly, and abstracts will be published in JFAR. Is there anyway to parlay Forth skills into a working vacation in SU? <[Sergei] FIGGUEST> Interested people should contact Larry Forsley - he's... in charge of the exchange program from the USA side. <[Wil] W.BADEN1> What applications are being used for Forth? <[Sergei] FIGGUEST> Mostly embedded applications, control, compiler making, neat programming with limited memory resources. <[Wil] W.BADEN1> Expand on compiler making, please. Sergei, please discuss the new soviet Forth engine a little. <[Sergei] FIGGUEST> A number of compiler making systems have been developed... at the Tartu Univ.(Estonia), Univ of Leningrad, my own.... The one at Len.Univ., e.g., implements a complete ISO Pascal in 22 K of memory for i8080 . Do you think that there are business opportunites for American consulting companies in the SU? <[Sergei] FIGGUEST> On conducting business and establishing contacts only... Other activities should be covered by USSR citizens. <[Wil] W.BADEN1> Does the Pascal compiler generate Forth code or machine code, or something else? <[Sergei] FIGGUEST> It generates p-code that is then interpreted. And a library of functions is also used, also in p-code. <[Leonard] NMORGENSTERN> With respect to the number of embedded systems being created, how does Forth compare with other languages? <[Sergei] FIGGUEST> It just started to move out Assembler - its only... competitor in this area. An people found it very nice... I try to publish every positive experience in this and... promote Forth usage among that group of users by example. <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> Sergei, what type of student exchange programs have you and Larry been working on... do you have any details yet? <[Sergei] FIGGUEST> Thanks to Randy Dumse two students will stay at his .... firm till September 1. They will learn the American... experince on their own mathematical background... And vice versa. We have quite different bgrds, and that... may lead to interesting results in cooperation. Will there be American students exercising similar options in the USSR ? <[Sergei] FIGGUEST> I hope so and wait for the names and dates. Serge, are programmers and other hi tech professionals ... better off economically or worse off under the new climate in the SU? <[Sergei] FIGGUEST> If they switch to private business, often yes. If they... stay within the same state structures, mostly no... But in Soviet business they loose their professionalism.... pretty soon, I know too many living examples.... The state system in the USSR allows a person.... to "grow" professionally if he or she wants to.... in exchange of poor salaries and no responsibilities... In our private business a professional should do... what he's told if doesn't want to be knocked off. HUH? You mean like, "organized crime" ? ( sounds like South Philadelphia :-) ) <[Sergei] FIGGUEST> I meant to be dismissed from that particular firm immediately. You have made several trips to Canada and the US, now. What is the 'one' thing, from a computer professional's viewpoint that you feel has benefitted you most from these trips ? <[Sergei] FIGGUEST> Self confidence that Soviet professionals.... can understand the Western colleagues quite.... well inspite of poor hardware support. <[Wil] W.BADEN1> In ten years what will be condition of Forth be in Russia? <[Sergei] FIGGUEST> That's a hard question. I'm not a prophet, things ... change so quickly in Russia. Now we have St.Petersburgh,.. and who could imagine this just a year ago? Nevertheless I dare say that Forth will not become a unanimously adopted... language, but will give a great impact on development.... of programming tools and languages. It's a feel of freedom that makes Forth so attractive and unusual within my.... country. It should have an enormous impact on the new... generation of programmers, that are now student or... schoolchildren. I am curious - is Forth used in USSR in Astro-Physics (that being its birthright in the US) ? <[Sergei] FIGGUEST> Yes and no. Astrophysisists still use FORTRAN programs... <[Sergei] FIGGUEST> designed 30 years ago and do not seem to move... <[Sergei] FIGGUEST> And there are new approaches based on Forth too. I'm... <[Sergei] FIGGUEST> more aware of embedded applications and book-keeping ... <[Sergei] FIGGUEST> and publishing systems that use Forth intensively. Jax - you have the honor of tonight's last question Serge ... you have JFAR over there now ... when will we start seeing ... listings for Forth Interest Group chapters in Moscow and Leni... oops, St. P? ... along with BBS'es to dial up for Soviet Forth? <[Sergei] FIGGUEST> To-night I believe, as I've not only a hard... copy of the SJFAR but a floppy disk with the text... designed to be used on a PC just as an electronic version of the Journal. The supporting program is written in ... Forth and the text is available. The only problem is with Russian characters, but it is solvablle too, you know. Sergei - please give your closing remarks <[Sergei] FIGGUEST> I greatly hope for increasing exchange of ideas... and experience. That's what makes the profession of... a computer programmer so dear to me. I thank you all.... for participating and hope to meet you again... maybe in St.Petersburg, the capital of new Russia! Thank you for an interesting insight into Forth's development in the Soviet Union. On behalf of the Forth Interest Group and the GEnie Forth RoundTable, I want to thank you for including us in your VERY busy schedule. We hope the rest of your visit is pleasant and productive. All may stay and chat but this conference is offially closed. === End of Steno notes. ===