Notice on door: Sunday night learning session with Len. Bring your
	own topic. 
Job     City         Room Sta Mail-Address
  1 Moraga,CA           3   L [Len] NMORGENSTERN
  2 Golden,CO           3   N FIGCHAPTERS
  3 Costa mesa,CA       3   N [Wil] W.BADEN1
  4 Sunnyvale,CA        3   N [Kevin] APPERT
  5 Austin,TX           3   N [Dave] OLORIN
  6 Torrance,CA         3   N D.RUFFER
  7 Altlanta,GA         3   N L.DANIEL1

Today is Sunday December 10, 1989

<FIGCHAPTERS> is here.
<Jennifer Marlowe> The Stenographer is here.
Jennifer Marlowe has come from the steno pool.

<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Hi Jax
<[jax@well.UUC] FIGCHAPTERS> was <FIGCHAPTERS>.

[jax@well.UUC] FIGCHAPTERS> hi len
<[jax@well] FIGCHAPTERS> was <[jax@well.UUC] FIGCHAPTERS>.
<[jax@well] FIGCHAPTERS> what's hot?
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> I'm using my PC tonight. I need to buy an
	AB swich
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> I have been plugging & unplugging cables!
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> .
<[jax@well] FIGCHAPTERS> Why using PC?
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> That's what I have used up to last week
	Then I found
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> that my uploading troubles were not due to
	Genie's line
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> but to some problem in my serial port!
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> So I switched machines.
<[jax@well] FIGCHAPTERS> I've heard that the best way to fix a PC ...
<[jax@well] FIGCHAPTERS> is to fill a bathtub with motor oil and
	submerse the PC!
<[jax@well] FIGCHAPTERS> That fixes it but goo.
<[jax@well] FIGCHAPTERS> .
<[jax@well] FIGCHAPTERS> good.
<[jax@well] FIGCHAPTERS> .
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> goo was correct!  .
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> is here.
<[jax@well] FIGCHAPTERS> Len, do you know ...
<[jax@well] FIGCHAPTERS> what you get ...
<[jax@well] FIGCHAPTERS> disconnected.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> hi len, jax.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Well, there goes Jax.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Hi, Len.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Hi Wil. I am composing a bad joke
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> ga.
<FIGCHAPTERS> hi
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> The good news is that Reagan & Bush have
	taken a stagnant economy
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> and brought it to world leadership
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> The bad news is
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> that it is Japan
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> .
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Ouch.
<FIGCHAPTERS> Do you know what you get when you cross an
	agnostic, an insomniac and a dyslexic? 
<APPERT> is here.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> ga
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> ga.
<[Kevin] APPERT> was <APPERT>.
<FIGCHAPTERS> Someone who stays up all night wondering if there
	really is a doc.
<FIGCHAPTERS> oops dog
<FIGCHAPTERS> .
<[Kevin] APPERT> what was the question?  hi all
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Yep. My daughter has dyslexia, fairly mild,
	but still somewhat of
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> hi kev.
<FIGCHAPTERS> what do you get when you cross a dyslexic, an
	agnostic and an insomniac.
<OLORIN> is here.
<[Dave] OLORIN> was <OLORIN>.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> a handicap. She saw a bumper sticker that
	said "SPA" She wondered
<[Dave] OLORIN> Hullo
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Hi Dave.
<FIGCHAPTERS> They say computer programming can cayse you to
	become dyslexic.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> what it was advertising, & read it again. It
	said PAS
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Hi Dave
<FIGCHAPTERS> ls
<[Kevin] APPERT> Product Assurance & Safty, Len?  (my arch enemies)
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> What shall we talk about, besides bad jokes?
<[Dave] OLORIN> Do we know anything else?
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> ga Kevin
<FIGCHAPTERS> Will someone please tell my daughter who knows it all
	what the first name of the Rock star who died, "Croce", was? I
	know, but she doesn't.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Dave if you mean do we know any good jokes, I
	doubt it
<[Kevin] APPERT> what did PAS stand for?
<[Kevin] APPERT> Jim Croce
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> but maybe we know some Forth.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Did I say PAS? It should have been PSA!
	(Maybe I, too have dyslexia)
<FIGCHAPTERS> Thanx Kevin, she just lost her stereo on a bet!
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Does Croce have a first name?
<[Kevin] APPERT> "Like the pine trees lining the winding roads, I've
	got a name..." it was immediate,
<D.RUFFER> is here.
<FIGCHAPTERS> Yeah, Kevin just said it.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Dennis!
<D.RUFFER> Hello Len, FIGCHAPTERS, Wil, Kevin, Dave
<FIGCHAPTERS> No, Jim.
<[Dave] OLORIN> Uhmmmnn... We're expecting SNOW here tomorrow
	night.
<FIGCHAPTERS>   :-)
<[Dave] OLORIN> Hullo Dennis.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> <Teacher is here. We all have to bee good!>
<FIGCHAPTERS> 1 foot here already! 10 degrees right now.
<[Dave] OLORIN> (Isn't good)
<[Kevin] APPERT> and the hidden bit was toggled, so FIND found it
<[Dave] OLORIN> You're used to it, Jax!
<[Kevin] APPERT> and then it executed!
<FIGCHAPTERS> You NEVER get used to Midwest winters.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> You never get used to it, Dave
<[Dave] OLORIN> It's in the high seventies today. Low 40's tomorrow.
	Soon to be low teens with wind chill
<FIGCHAPTERS> It's like getting used to death.
<FIGCHAPTERS> You can't live with it!
<D.RUFFER> Ah, but you can get out of them (gee it's nice here righ tnow :-)
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Here it's cool, about 50. Will probalby go to
	36 during nite
<FIGCHAPTERS> A-a-a-, ya muddah! 
<[Kevin] APPERT> it  
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> <we need rain!>
<FIGCHAPTERS> Send you some snow, collect.
<[Kevin] APPERT> just goes to show EVERYTHING relates to Forth!
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> You collect it! Make a snowball.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> How so, Kevin?
<[Dave] OLORIN> : EVERYTHING ." Yeah. This too. It relates. So there.
	" CR BEEP ;
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> <Moraga has had snow 4 times in 34 years>
<FIGCHAPTERS> After C.MOORE programs his laser mosquito zapper,
	think he'll program me a snow shovel?
<[Dave] OLORIN> (grin)
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Getting back to Forth. You all remember
	John Peters' idea
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> to put Forth texts in the library. I asked our
	librarian
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> She says, send her the book along with a
	letter, etc. She
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> will forward it to the acquisitions
	committee. If they accept it
<[Kevin] APPERT> I was quoting Jim Croce's "I've got a NAME", Len
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> then the title goes ;into the computer, and
	the book
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> is "official" and copies can be accepted
	without any other formal
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> action.
<[Kevin] APPERT> what if they find it "subversive" !!! ?
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> .        <sorry>
<FIGCHAPTERS> That's right, Forth uses Polish notation!
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> I don't know. We could argue it
<FIGCHAPTERS> Must be a communist plot!
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> I guess.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> But I doubt it would be a problem. We shall
	see
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> I may give them my copy of Brodie Ed. 1
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> <if it isn't marked up>
<FIGCHAPTERS> Do Forth a service, Len. DOn't.
<[Dave] OLORIN> But it's out of date!
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Why do you say that, Jax?
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> You are right Dave. I will buy a fresh one of
	ed 2.
<[Kevin] APPERT> just reading Heinlien's "Grumbles from the Grave" .
	He had a lot of trouble with librarians and his juviniles.  one
	fellow in particular thought of himself as guardian of children's little
	minds.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> The librarians are in a difficult position
<FIGCHAPTERS> Brodie edition 1 confuses people quite a bit. I here
	about that a lot at work.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> When they choose a book, it helps them if a
	lot of people say
<FIGCHAPTERS> I'm talking engineers trying to learn forth on the fly.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Hurrrah. Then they can justify it. If a group
	protests and
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> nobody supports the book, they may have to
	pull it.
<FIGCHAPTERS> The best "learn forth" book is Harry Katzan's _Invitation to
   	Forth_ Petrocelli Press, 1980. Only seen 1 copy in my whole life. Shame.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Ah, thanks, Jax. Is there still the same problem
	with Brodie 2?
<FIGCHAPTERS> After that _Complete Forth_ by Winfield, published in
	England. 
<FIGCHAPTERS> Brodie 2 is ok.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> I have Katzan brb
<FIGCHAPTERS> But I put it third on the list of "First Forth Books"
<FIGCHAPTERS> Brodie 1 is confusing when the user has F83.
<FIGCHAPTERS> .
<[Kevin] APPERT> is Katzan still in print?
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> That's a surprise. Katzan was a prolific author of bad
	books written with ...
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> I think it is on sale at Stacey's
<FIGCHAPTERS> don't think so.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> scissors and paste.
<FIGCHAPTERS> (to kevin)
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> That is where I believe I bought it not too long
	ago.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> <maybe 6 mo>
<FIGCHAPTERS> Is petrocelli stillin business?
<FIGCHAPTERS> in 1980 they were issuing the best PC books in the
	business, aimed at apples and trs-80s.
<FIGCHAPTERS> <<< "Scissors & Paste" ??? >>> huh, Wil?
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Brodie interviewed for a update to TF, but the pubisher
reneged.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Jax, see my previous line.
<FIGCHAPTERS> TF was very good, much better than SF, but is now out of
	print, jaxthinx.
<FIGCHAPTERS> Oh, now I see, Wil!
<FIGCHAPTERS> Not fond of Katzan, eh?
<[Kevin] APPERT> why did the pubisher wimp out, Wil ?
<FIGCHAPTERS> Where is he these days?
<FIGCHAPTERS> They don't sell very many copies of thinking forth.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Don't know.  Especially since the published called Brodie.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> The reason is always money, Kevin. They didn't
	think there would be endough
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> sales.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> .ales.
<[Kevin] APPERT> 
<FIGCHAPTERS> Yup, len, it was probably the Ales. Too many at lunch.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> <freudian slip endough for enough!>
<[Kevin] APPERT> how did Thinking Forth 1 do?
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Katzan may be *very* good because he is completely
	unorginal.
<FIGCHAPTERS> Think they printed 60000 and still have many of them
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> A lot of good stuff on general programming in TF
	(Thinking Forth)
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Brodie told me that the publisher wanted to update.
<FIGCHAPTERS> Yeah, Wil, that's what I liked about Katzan. No cuteness.
	Just told how Forth wroks, one step at a time. Boom. Instant Forth
	programmer.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> I wonder what made them decide not to.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> My info on the No Update is Martin T at Forml.
<[Kevin] APPERT> if he didn't have a signed contract, he was working on
	speculation, wether he knew it or not (Brodie was)
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Well, Martin might be wrong, but Brodie hasn't been back
	to me.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> How do you all feel about the cartoons in Starting
	Forth. Do they
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> add or detract?
<FIGCHAPTERS> Detract. But Ting's are funny in Inside F83
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> At first they detract, then they become useful.
<FIGCHAPTERS> Did like that "programming conventions" joke in
	"Thinking", though.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Tell us, Jax
<FIGCHAPTERS> You saw it!
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Yes.  And the one one patching.
<[Kevin] APPERT> the cover of one of the glossy trades (EDN?) just
	announced what a wonderfull thing Intel just did:  a RISCoid chip
	which executes MORE THAN ONE INSTRUCTION PER CLOCK!!!!
	how do the come up with these inovations?
<D.RUFFER> disconnected.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> "The one ON patching"
<FIGCHAPTERS> dennis fell of his chair.
<[Kevin] APPERT> oops, they got Dennis
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Or did his chair fall on him?
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> There was an IBM mainframe that did that over
	20 years ago
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> I was talking live to DaR earlier -- he is having telephone
	problems.
<FIGCHAPTERS> Yeah Kevin, that was mentioned in UNIX Review in
	Kelly-Bootle's column.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Certain instructions were "free" when certain
	others were execute.
<FIGCHAPTERS> I think it was supposed to be that the 6 procs executed
	collectively 5 MFlops.
<FIGCHAPTERS> Slight misprint.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> I thot that the conventional RISC's executed >1 by
pipelining.
<FIGCHAPTERS> Maybe it was 50?
<D.RUFFER> is here.
<FIGCHAPTERS> Welcome back!
<D.RUFFER> sorry, kids and 1 phone line will get you every time
<FIGCHAPTERS> Call Waiting?
<D.RUFFER> no kids picking up the phone without asking first
<FIGCHAPTERS> Aha, the ol' manual disconnect?
<FIGCHAPTERS> .
<[Dave] OLORIN> has left.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> He left! I was going to ask him
<FIGCHAPTERS> What's new at pF, Dennis?
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> if he had explored further about bundling a PD
	Forth with
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> new computers.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> ga Dennis
<D.RUFFER> nothing much at all...REALLY!
<FIGCHAPTERS> I *BELIEVE* you! :-)
<D.RUFFER> but I'm still working on the ZMODEM thingie
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Holiday doldrums: not much business
<D.RUFFER> boy do I hate gotos
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> What language?
<D.RUFFER> written in C, but trying to translate to Forth
<D.RUFFER> 3 page procedure with mutiple gotos are a real pain
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> I am a great promoter of GOTO's but they must be
	used
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> properly. They can really create a mess if misused
	& it is
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> easy to misuse them.
<D.RUFFER> anyone know a good way to implement goto in Forth?
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Yes. See my Austin paper. Since it's not out, I will
	send you a copy
<FIGCHAPTERS> COMPILE BRANCH
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Really designed as an error handler, but can be
	used generally
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> You can jump back out of nested Forth words to a
	previous point
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> but not forward, and preserve IP return stack and
	parameter stack
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> .
<D.RUFFER> unfortunately jack, BRANCH is not quite good enough if you
	also need to exit from mutiple levels
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> The problem with BRANCHes, Jax is correcting
	the stacks
<D.RUFFER> that sounds simular to what I've got already, but not quite
	enough
<FIGCHAPTERS> RP0 RP! ( ?? :-) )
<FIGCHAPTERS> RP0 @ RP!
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Yes, it's like that.
<D.RUFFER> I'll look forward to what you did len
<D.RUFFER> I implemented a stack of return points, but sometimes I need to
	swap the return points now
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> See my ANSI proposal uploaded Thanksgiving morning
	Cat 10.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Idea: I will see if I can get into PC format & upload
<D.RUFFER> I'm using most of those tricks Wil
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Will, I don't like yours because it does not
	preserve the parameter stack
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> otherwise it is similar to mine.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Actually min is a modification of an idea of Phil
Wasson's
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> You shouldn't have to preserve the param. stack.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Yes you do!
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> (At least you should be able to)'
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> (Mine is not mine, it's ANSI C.)
<D.RUFFER> sometime you need to pass back a parameter (as is the case in
	C's "return n") 
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Here is where Forth can improve on C at the cost
	of a few bytes
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> I believe it's undesirable.
<D.RUFFER> the biggest problem I'm having is refactoring 3 page long
	procedures of mutiple case statements with inbedded gotos
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Why so?
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> That is probably a Finite State Machine.  Rewrite it as
	such.
<D.RUFFER> it is, but the states themselves are so convoluted that I need to
	write it long hand once before I can see the factoring.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Ah.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Wil, I have wondered whether the "Finite" in
	"Finite State Machine"
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> is redundant. Is there such a thing as an infinite
	state machine?
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> .
<D.RUFFER> Then, once I have it working long hand, I'm not sure I'll have the
	ambision to rewrite into a state machine
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> <in practice, that is>
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Campbell's "C Programmer's Guide to Serial
	Communications" has lots of good stuf
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> .
<D.RUFFER> Oh, I understand the concepts of all the stuff I'm translating...
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Len, in practice yes, in theory no.
<D.RUFFER> it's the interrelationships that I need to get straight, and that
can only be found in the original code.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> infinite? or just uncontrollably large?
<D.RUFFER> I don't know anyone who has tried to "explain" ZMODEM other than
Chuck Forseburg has done in code.
<L.DANIEL1> is here.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Len, your question is equivalent to questioning Free Will.
<FIGCHAPTERS> Show me something Built To Last.
<FIGCHAPTERS>  :-)
<FIGCHAPTERS> Yo, LD!
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> <ha ha>
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Will Free Will Free Wil?
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Hi L.Daniel. We like to be informal. Set your name
<[Kevin] APPERT> I've always thought Wil rather expensive (worth every
	penny of course)
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> by typing /Les or whatever at the beginning of a
	line
<[Larry] L.DANIEL1> was <L.DANIEL1>.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Hi Larry.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Thanx
<[Larry] L.DANIEL1> Hi Folks, I just saw the Crowd and thought to drop in.
<FIGCHAPTERS> Actually, Dennis, ZMODEM is implemented as a shared
	dynamic link lib on the Amiga.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Welcome!
<FIGCHAPTERS> I think the source is available here on GEnie on page 671
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Jax, what topic is that?
<FIGCHAPTERS> 671 is the lib for PRO/AM, the Amiga programmers conf.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> AH.
<D.RUFFER> I've got two version of source jack...1 in C the other in Pascal
D.RUFFER> unfortunately, they both can handle the 3 page procedure...
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> (Larry, we're discussing ZMODEM implementation.)
<FIGCHAPTERS> I think he guessed!
<D.RUFFER> so can Forth, but it is extremely ugly on blocks (that I'm using)
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> I sent him a message
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> (I have slow fingers.)
<FIGCHAPTERS> GRATEFUL DEAD!! YAH!! ROCK ON!!!
<FIGCHAPTERS> scuse me, folks.
<FIGCHAPTERS> .
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> (Sorry Len, I shud've known.)
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> (I'v had sticky fingers ever since I got into that
	jam)
<D.RUFFER> oh no, another dead head
<[Larry] L.DANIEL1> I love ZMODEM... I use an AMIGA with a ZMODEM
	program.
<FIGCHAPTERS> Right, Larr ... do you have the proto.lib?
<[Larry] L.DANIEL1> Nope, I'm using ZMODEM but not into it's guts..yet.
<D.RUFFER> It is a very nice protocol, but extrememly convoluted as it has
	been implemented.  It has a lot of options that are never even used.
<FIGCHAPTERS> LIke life.
<OLORIN> is here.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> huh?
<[Dave] OLORIN> was <OLORIN>.
<[Kevin] APPERT> hi Dave
<FIGCHAPTERS> what's that smell? :-)
<[Dave] OLORIN> Hullo
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> What op;tions, Dennis?
<D.RUFFER> For example, it has a flag to implement 8th bit escaping, but no
	code to support it 
<D.RUFFER> It has a check that it got an 8th bit set, but never uses the flag
<FIGCHAPTERS> Larry, how are you Forthing on Amy? Jforth, Multi?
	A4TH?
<D.RUFFER> etc...
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> <Len guesses that somebody got tired>
<[Larry] L.DANIEL1> Well FIG, I wrote my own.
<D.RUFFER> haven't we all?
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Yep
<FIGCHAPTERS> brb
<[Kevin] APPERT> dinner calls.  'night all
<[Kevin] APPERT> has left.
<D.RUFFER> nigth kevin
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Eat well, Kevin
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Larry, you wrote your own what? Forth?
<[Larry] L.DANIEL1> Yep a little Forth very much like Jforth.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Great!
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> What is Jax going to get?
<[Larry] L.DANIEL1> Thanks for the enthusiasm.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> The problem with teaching beginners Forth is that
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> there are no beginners. Within a few weeks a
	beginner
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> is modifying the editor,
<[Dave] OLORIN> (Or has given up completely)
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> and within a few months he is trying to write a
	new Forth
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> often with good success.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> .
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Right, Dave. There is usually no economic
	incentive
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> to stick to it, as there is with C.
<[Dave] OLORIN> (I love C's economic incentive. As does my landlord, my
creditors, etc)
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Right.
<[Larry] L.DANIEL1> I was a beginner until I wrote my own.
<[Larry] L.DANIEL1> Now I really understand Forth.
<[Larry] L.DANIEL1> I didn't get any economic rewards,
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> How long between starting Forth and starting to
	write a new one?
<[Larry] L.DANIEL1> but I sure love using my own system.
<[Larry] L.DANIEL1> I started with Forth in 1981 and wrote my own in 1985.
<D.RUFFER> that is perhaps the "only" way to truly learn Forth, is to write
	your own to see how it is done.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> It's like learning a musical instrument. Relatively
	few can
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> make a living at it.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> .
<FIGCHAPTERS> jobs go begging.
<[Larry] L.DANIEL1> Also you learn how elegant the wordset is ...
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> (Very good thought, Len.)
<[Larry] L.DANIEL1> when you try to do things differently and ...
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> I have never tried to write a new Forth, as
	opposed to inserting
<[Larry] L.DANIEL1> find out Forth way is better.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> a few improvements (at least I think they are
	improvements)
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Wait till next year to be sure.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Well, it is getting past the witching hour.
<D.RUFFER> well, wife needs the phone, and I need to get back to ZMODEM
	translation
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Do we ;have any last-minute comments
<D.RUFFER> see ya all in the BB
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Bye Dennis
<[Dave] OLORIN> \ Here is where things get tricky
<[Larry] L.DANIEL1> So long and thanks for the fish...
<[Larry] L.DANIEL1> has left.
<[Dave] OLORIN> (Well... you did ask)
<D.RUFFER> bye................poof
<D.RUFFER> has left.
<FIGCHAPTERS> Quis custodiet ipsos custodes.
<[Dave] OLORIN> A hot date is just a warmed over fig?
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> a headache from the last session, Dave.
<FIGCHAPTERS> Det fraus endnu om naetterne, og hver morgen var
	markerne hvide af rim.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Puns in Latin, yet.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> See y'all Next Week. (I have bored meeting Thursday.)
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> What language is that, Jax?
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Bye Wil
<FIGCHAPTERS> If we demonstrate in the street outside, Wil, will they all
	resign like the GDRCP?
<FIGCHAPTERS>  :-)
<FIGCHAPTERS> Norse. Riksmaol.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> has left.

<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> If there are no more comments, I will close down
	the round table.
<[Dave] OLORIN> has left.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Bye Jax
<FIGCHAPTERS> gnite chet
<FIGCHAPTERS> has left.
<Jennifer Marlowe> Stenographer has stopped recording.
Steno is returned to the pool.
<[Len] NMORGENSTERN> has left.
Door Notice is removed.
Room now has no leader.


P 710? ----- CLOSING. TODAY IS: Sunday December 10, 1989 -----