Date: 12/10/87 Time: 22:44EST Attendees: [[Dennis] D.RUFFER] [GARY-S] [J.GLOGOWER] [[Ted] T.DICKENS1] [LMORGENSTERN] for a couple minutes Minutes: <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> is here. <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> hello gary is here. HI - WE'RE IT, HUH <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> so far I just got a message... from Lee Brotzman on bitnet... He is on GEne and will be thanking ... you personally for our action... you can sew up any loose ends then.GA <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> hello j.glogower hello Dennis . I'm new to this and don't quite know what will happen. <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok we will try to help.... read the rtcqk.ref ? <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> first you should set your name by... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> typing /name nnnn I guess I just type/name jon there's terrible interleaving. <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> yes at the beginning of the line and slow response <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> yes ther is and slow.... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> i will show you how to do it... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> one person type at a time.... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> include ...s if he has more to say.... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> and type "ga" when he is done... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> then the next person can talk ga !! <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ga gary jon - you really need to... download the rtc/qk.ref from... the library. It will make a handy guide for future use.GA <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> yes... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> and you can type /help to see the list of commands ga O.k i get it/help !! <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ga gary ok what new features have been added besides the... abiility to recover from a zapped.. BML ? and believe me.. that is enough ! GA <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> besides cleaning up if I get dropped... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> they also removed the blank lines... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> a lot nicer eh... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> they also add a /scramble command... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> although I don't know why you'd use it... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> other than that, they really didn't change much. ga ! ok <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ga gary Jon - if you want to jump in type !! ...

this tells the room leader you have a comment...

and if you wanna talk forth, that's what w're here for... Talking Forth...... Lee is going to stir up the Standards sdiscussion in topic 16... Boy, am I glad someone has an ax to grind. GA <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ga Jon?? disconnected. <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I guess he left.... just us again <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> did you get my letter about a survey? ga I noticed a letter up tonight. I haven't read it yet.ga <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> we now can have our own survey... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> with about 20 multiple choice questions... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> and a comment section at the end... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I'd like to get something to Tom next Monday... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> do you have anything to ask? ga GREAT ! Can we run more than... one at a time ? We need to get a formal... proposal up somewhere. DANMN finger really hurts... I'll think about particulars on ours.ga <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> they put it as the last thing... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> on our main menu, so... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> we can probably only have one at a time... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I'll wait until Sunday to finalize... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> the first one, but it doesn't have to... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> last very long before we change it... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> what did you do to your finger anyway? ga ok cut tyhe end of my left index finger off ! I just thought of something I want.. on the survey... I really think a central issue in the standard(s) is tying a standard to a bit size or making it an... open configuration... and I want some input on that.GA <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> that was talked about a lot at the ANSI meeting... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> they almost passed a proposal to replace... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> all refs to 16 bits with the word CELL... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> however, ragsdale invoked the 2 week rule... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> which says they can study it for 2 more weeks... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> it will be voted on, very soon now... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> i think it will pass, since there was only... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> 1 decent from Bob Smith, who didn't like it saying... is here. <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> that any number of bits could be set into CELL... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> welcome back Jon, we're talking about questions... ]!! <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> for a survey we will add to the system next week... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> gary wanted a question about standards... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> specifically the 16 bit issue... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ga gary ok... I do want that on the survey... It is NOT a simple issue... what happens at 32 bits ... 64...96 and so on... There has to be a point where you quit designating cell size... even though that may blow trasnsportability... all to hell. ideas ??? he said ...GA <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> do you have a suggestion for the wording... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> and possible multiple choice answers? ga ok.. Suire -- Do you think the new standard should be... rtied to a cell size or group of cell sizes ? 16 ? 32? what ? or open configuration with hooks. something like that . GA <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> but.... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> remember this is a STICTLY multiple choice... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> the "what ?" question can not be answered ga ok.. yes No 8 16 32 64 remeber the 64 k ceiling and C@ @ etc... GA <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I agree that would be a good question... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> and I was thinking about a couple others like... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> do you think there should be a standard?... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> but I'll have to work on the exact wording.... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> this weekend. ga ok... By gosh, I do ! BUT I won't get on that soap box, now.... Hiow about something on specific extensions... FP arrays ..... GA <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> gary, we don't have to keep talking... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> to ourselves if your finger is hurting... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I copied my request for suggestions... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> to the ansi group, so I hope they send in... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> some suggestions also. ga ok... I don't care - we only have a few minutes left anyway... get allan's input... he always has something to ssay about this sort of.. thing and some of it is solid... I'm typing with my third finger-hope you can read it... any ideas for the survey, Jon... GA hello. first of all ... I tried tofind rtcqk.ref and couldnt ga rtc/qk.ref ok, will look for it.. <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> good thing you remember the name gary AS for standards, that's so complicated... that I don't know waht to say ga <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> do you have any other suggestions... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> for questions to ask on a... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> multiple choice survey? ga well, the finot really !! has left. <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ga gary ok... What was that ??? oh well .. how about some possible RTC visitors, and see who.. they'd like to see next among those you have... targeted... and maybe a zinger about these informasl ones... I relly didn't expect anything tonight... but others turn into absolute floor fights ! GA <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I didn't either, but it's worth waiting... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> untill 10:30 at least... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I just wrote a note to myself... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> to call chuck tomorrow night... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> to see when he wants to do an RTC... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I might add questions about topics for RTCs... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> and one about what night to have it on... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> Thursday is really a slow night anyway.... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> maybe another would be better... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> however, we'll stick to Thursday for next week.... is here. <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> then we have Chrstmas and new years eve... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> so there will be 2 weeks lag anyway... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> by then I may have some answers... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> on the survey, and we'll know what is better... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> did you find the file Jon? ga .wednesday and saturday butt heads with somne church goers... and most guests prefer to pick their own topics.ga yes <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> Jon, do you have any preference... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> to when we have these little get togethers? ga not really. <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> do you have any other questions Jon?.... I don't understand when to break in <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok !! <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ga Jon there'there's something wrong with software for this thing,I think. .. It should be possible for the big brain to not mix the messages up ga <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> there is a way.... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I can put everone in listen only mode... ]!!! <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> where only 1 person can talk at a time... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> and people have to raise their hand to get my attention... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> but that is only for "formal" conferences... !! <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> for informal ones like this... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> we have a simple protocol... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> let me explain the whole thing first... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> then I'll give you the "ga"... !!! <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> when you want to talk, you type !! (like you did)... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> when a break comes, and you are on the... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> top of the list... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I'll say "ga Jon", and you can start talking... is here. <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> when you are done... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> you type "ga" to let us know... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> that you are finished... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> then I move to the next.... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ga Jon ok Dennis. The point was that I don't see why the system can't buffer whole messages so that they don't interleave ga !! <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ga gary ok... Jon do /ECH that will turn off your echo and.. a lot of that interleaving will stop.GA <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I forgot to also mention... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> that when you get the "ga"... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> you should type ok ... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> to let us know your still with us... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> and that you should keep the lines... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> as short as possible... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> the system can't do much more... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> than line buffering, which isn't enough... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> they gave us /listen just for that purpose... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> Hello Ted. Glad you could join us. ga <[Ted] T.DICKENS1> ok <[Ted] T.DICKENS1> Just thumbing through the manual... <[Ted] T.DICKENS1> trying to catch up on all the commands. <[Ted] T.DICKENS1> Am disappointed to find that not all <[Ted] T.DICKENS1> the commands are listed in the quick ref... <[Ted] T.DICKENS1> and things like /STAtus are incompletely... <[Ted] T.DICKENS1> explained. <[Ted] T.DICKENS1> On other topics, the READ ALL ALL NOREPLY <[Ted] T.DICKENS1> did not work as expected, but it did give <[Ted] T.DICKENS1> me enough of a direction to get what I <[Ted] T.DICKENS1> needed. Have now downloaded everything and <[Ted] T.DICKENS1> all that remains is to read it all.... ga <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> again, I'm really impressed... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I'll bet I forgot to tell you... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> to do the SET category first... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> sorrry about that. :-) ga <[Ted] T.DICKENS1> ok <[Ted] T.DICKENS1> True. Browse lets one cross category <[Ted] T.DICKENS1> boundaries, but not the READ command. <[Ted] T.DICKENS1> Did separate reads for each category. <[Ted] T.DICKENS1> BTW - do you have a list of the J14 <[Ted] T.DICKENS1> folks who have made it to GEnie? <[Ted] T.DICKENS1> ga <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> that is another command... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> type ATTEND in the standards cat... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> to see who is there... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> not many yet... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> you can also MAIL to the whole group... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> by address To: ANSFORTH$ ga <[Ted] T.DICKENS1> ok <[Ted] T.DICKENS1> Good. Though we adopted MCI Mail as the official <[Ted] T.DICKENS1> channel - I hope that at the next meeting GEnie <[Ted] T.DICKENS1> will take over as the sole BBS for the committee. <[Ted] T.DICKENS1> It's unneccessarily difficult to have to conduct !! <[Ted] T.DICKENS1> business in two places. <[Ted] T.DICKENS1> ga <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ga gary ok... Ted, besides the involvement on MCI is absolutely... absymal ! Those I know who are already on... GEnie are Chuck Moore, Greg Bailey, Ron Braithwaite, add Jon Gotwals, also... please jump in and stir the CAT 10. GA <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok <[Ted] T.DICKENS1> disconnected. <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I almost won that at the last meeting... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> but you forgot about Jerry... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> he wanted the MCI system because... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> they donated the time and... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> he is the TC secretary... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I guess Ted left.... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> it's after 10:30 closing time... was it something I said ? <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> does anyone want to continue? ga is here. no - we need to hold to the time frame, I think <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok <[ted] T.DICKENS1> ! <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> Ted you missed my additions about... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> Jerry Shifrin wanting to keep MCI... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> but they will be in the steno notes.... is here. <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I should have them up tomorrow...] <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> oh oh now Lenoards here... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> everyone be quite now!... !! <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> just kidding ga Ted <[Ted] T.DICKENS1> ok <[Ted] T.DICKENS1> The joys of call waiting that can't.. <[Ted] T.DICKENS1> be disconnected! Saw the tail end of a <[Ted] T.DICKENS1> message that sounded like you're getting <[Ted] T.DICKENS1> ready to close the bar. ga <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ga gary ok... what times did you post anyway ? GA <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I did say we would only stay for 1 hour... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> from 9:30 to 10:30 pm EST... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> and it's past that now... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> and getting close to my bed time... <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> anyone have anything else? ga <[Ted] T.DICKENS1> night all <[Dennis] D.RUFFER> good night ted <[Ted] T.DICKENS1> has left. has left. has left. disconnected. === End of Steno notes. ===