Minutes of the FIGGY BAR RT Conference.
      
Date: 11/03/88   Time: 22:27EST
Attendees:
[[Gary] GARY-S]
[[Dennis] D.RUFFER]
[[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS]
[[Kevin] APPERT]
         
Items discussed: voting booths and talking hands in Forth, FIG chapters' new
               coordinator & reaching the chapters, CAD, Forth Horror stories
Minutes:
<FIGCHAPTERS> is here.
<[jax|vesta] FIGCHAPTERS> woof
<D.RUFFER> is here.
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> hoi!
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> hi guys
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> Do you have that set on a random generator jack?
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> it beats conversqation
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> did you guys hear the latest?
<[Gary] GARY-S> says a lot for us
<[Gary] GARY-S> which latest
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> latest what?
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I just posted an interesting rumer
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> did yu spel it rite?
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> My parents caught a talk show...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> you know the Today or Good Morning A... type
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> sometime like last Monday....
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> a guy on the talk segment...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> was talking about the Voting Booths....
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> aparently they are written in Forth...
<[Gary] GARY-S> rilly ?
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> and this guy was saying that that made them unsecure...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> and that Forth could not be trusted, since it could be 
modified
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ain't that a bunch
<[Gary] GARY-S> yeah - like each booth comes with a rs-232 and keyboard
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I called Jan and told her
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> somehow Bess got wind of it and called my wife...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> and then even called my parents...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> they couldn't remember any more...
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> age does that
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> but the game is now afoot.
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> .
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> Did you see EE Design
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> this week?
<[Gary] GARY-S> hell - let's tell them it's a conspiracy - chapter memberships 
would go through the roof !!!
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> what was in EE?
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> A Hand!!
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ??
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> A Hand for people who want to talk to Deaf Mutes.
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> You type, it signs, the blind/deaf party feels the 
fingers.
<[Gary] GARY-S> and what is the sound of A HAND clapping ?
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> neet!
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> in FORTH!
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> of course!
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> " The program comprises thirty pages of Forth".
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> wonder what will happen if the voting booths mess up?
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> The Dexter project ( the talking hand) was 
programmed by David Jaffe of Palo Alto.
<[Gary] GARY-S> Jax - we have a chapter meeting here manana - any message for 
the faithful ?
<[Gary] GARY-S> Jax ?
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> Yeah "are there any more at home like you?" where 
are all the chapters that are not on the coasts? Each one should log in o
n GEnie. If anybody knows Australian or English FORTHers, I can be reached 
internationally on the WELL.
<[Gary] GARY-S> I have UK addresses
<[Gary] GARY-S> about 8 of'em
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> That's great, do they have email tags on them>
<[Gary] GARY-S> no
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> and I have one in Aussie land
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> again no EMAIL
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> Ok, dennis, how do we rustle up postage. Is JD going 
to call me or should I call him?
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> hasn't he called you yet?
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> No, but maybe it would be politerer if I called him 
first.
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> ...???
<[Gary] GARY-S> 45 cents / half-ounce airmail
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> try after 7:30 PST
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> I have his ### but if you have it handy ...???
<APPERT> is here.
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> hi kevin
<[Kevin] APPERT> Hi all. sorry I'm late
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> hi kevin.
<[Gary] GARY-S> you missed nothing
<[Kevin] APPERT> I'm doing this at work,. and I got "ONE MORTE THING"ed
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> He missed Dexter.
<[Kevin] APPERT> Dexter?
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> ( must work at a funeral parlor)
<[Gary] GARY-S> the voting cheat
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> "ONE MORTE THING" ??? something died.
<[Kevin] APPERT> MORTE=MORE (typeo)
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> NO DEXTER THE TALKING HAND!!!
<[Kevin] APPERT> Did you see the article
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> Programmed in Forth by David Jaffe on the Z80.
<[Kevin] APPERT> in EE times about "Computers and Medicine"?
<[Gary] GARY-S> can you post on the BBS
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> that's the article that mentioned DEXTER.
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> the one Kevin just mentions.
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> .
<[Kevin] APPERT> I can post the date, the material is copyright
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> EE TIMES 31 Oct 1988
<[Gary] GARY-S> I will send UK addresses in the next few days - to FIGCHAPTERS ?
<[Kevin] APPERT> "Engineers give doctosrs a hand"  Pg 48
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> right.
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> And unlike my short little brother, FIG ...
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> I will *answer* my email.
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> .
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> <grin>
<[Gary] GARY-S> you didn't mine
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> If it is rhetorical i don't, but we exchange notes 
every few days, gary!
<[Kevin] APPERT> Forth horror stories anybody?
<[Gary] GARY-S> go kev
<[Kevin] APPERT> I don't have one handy.  thought somebody else might
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> yea
<[Gary] GARY-S> Is Denver Telenet fixed yet ?
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> how about your votes being tallied by Forth
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> Denver is on some sort of experiment
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> haven't gotten any deatils yet tho
<[Gary] GARY-S> PCP is dead going in
<[Kevin] APPERT> reminds me of a group where I work which got started using 
Forth.
<[Kevin] APPERT> so they hired a C programmer who re-metacompiled every time he 
made a
<[Kevin] APPERT> trivial change in his system.  He felt Forth was a slow 
awkward way to
<[Kevin] APPERT> complie code.  He went back to C, the group went to C, he 
quit...
<[Kevin] APPERT> the group dhas no clue what Forth is about...
<[Gary] GARY-S> Conferences comming - Dec 8 = Mitch Bradley, Jan 12 = Mike Perry
<[Kevin] APPERT> and we all lived happily ever after.
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> ( well being >>> mike perry )
<[Kevin] APPERT> your text got mixed with mine, what dates for perry?
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> has mike picked a topic?
<[Gary] GARY-S> jan 12
<[Kevin] APPERT> ack
<[Gary] GARY-S> not yet - neither has mitch that i can print
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> " Mitch Bradley Speaks: ' (($*&(#^&%&^$ ' "
<[Kevin] APPERT> oops, I don't get IT Jax
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> Kevin ... similar He said that mitch's topic was 
nothing he could print.
<[Kevin] APPERT> ohhhhhhhhhh
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> Kevin .. similar horror story with a VESTA client.
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> Department in LARGE customer starts developing 
project on a VESTA board.
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> Program is 95% completed, hardware of expensive 
hi-ticket item all linked up.
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> A few things left to do, including final ROMming.
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> Office politics drives out lead programmer.
<[Kevin] APPERT> stepping into rom always has a few problems
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> Replaced by an expert in 6502 assembler. Can't tie 
shoelaces with roadmap.
<[Kevin] APPERT> what was processor
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> After two months, has written ONE FORTH WORD:
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> ( 8086)
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> : GO LOAD RUN ;
<[Kevin] APPERT> gaaaaaaaaaa
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> hahahhahahahahah! And he claims we make fun of him 
when he calls.
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> Heaven forfend!
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> .... :-)
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> .
<[Gary] GARY-S> just say "GO"
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> we did , but he keeps coming back.
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> .
<[Kevin] APPERT> just say NOreaga
<[Kevin] APPERT> a bad programmer who does ...
<[Kevin] APPERT> not understantd forth....
<[Kevin] APPERT> will do with the language...
<[Kevin] APPERT> and to our credability...
<[Kevin] APPERT> I wonder why we try to get people...
<[Kevin] APPERT> to try it.
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> In line with your point, Kevin ..
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> it is Chuck Moore who said ...
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> "Maybe it would be better if not so many people used 
Forth"
<[Gary] GARY-S> Dennis - I forwarded Mike's letter regarding ANS TC --- I am in 
a holding...
<[Gary] GARY-S> pattern till after the convention, ok
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> got it
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> but haven't read it yet
<[Kevin] APPERT> anybody know a cheap car rental company in o.county?
<[Gary] GARY-S> Just what I told you
<[Kevin] APPERT> <going to the convention...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> anyone know how to get from LA to Anaheim?
<[Gary] GARY-S> Rent-^a-wreck has an outlet there
<[Kevin] APPERT> travel agent blessed by FIG ...
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> yes.
<[Kevin] APPERT> had best price =AVIS!!!!!
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> yuck
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> get on the freeway and head south.
<[Gary] GARY-S> Take a jitney
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> Don't miss Orange County Airport while you're there.
<[Kevin] APPERT> going to Wescon, and visiting also!  need wheels
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> Eight foot tall bronze statue of John Wayne, 
reaching for his six-shooter!
<[Gary] GARY-S> any forth stuff gentlemen ?
<[Kevin] APPERT> I can say ADA, CAN'T I?
<[Gary] GARY-S> How many volumes is the 'official' DOD Ada up to ??
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> ... :-0
<[Kevin] APPERT> < writing a Forth program to generate a waiver request
<[Kevin] APPERT> on request
<[Kevin] APPERT> .
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> well, goodnite all and remember, ...
<[Gary] GARY-S> jax - you gonna do a figchap column in FD ?
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> Am i invited?
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> guess so ... jd did one, right?
<[Gary] GARY-S> leave one here to MARLIN.O
<[Gary] GARY-S> just don't expect a response
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> ok, when Ihave something to say!
<[Kevin] APPERT> anybody have
<[Jack Woehr] FIGCHAPTERS> has left.
<[Kevin] APPERT> any advice about...
<[Kevin] APPERT> schematic capture.?
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> PCAD
<[Kevin] APPERT> simulator?
<[Kevin] APPERT> PCB layout?
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> don't think so, what scale you need?
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> sim that is, it does layout
<[Kevin] APPERT>   scale?  how many parts - ~100 or so
<[Gary] GARY-S> mils
<[Gary] GARY-S> angstroms if your doing chips
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> surface mount?
<[Kevin] APPERT> don't know yet, we layout with pretty wide traces
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I've heard good reports about PCAD...
<[Kevin] APPERT> in Mill Spcec parts?  goo luck
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> but I really don't know much about that stuff
<[Kevin] APPERT> no, just dips and PGA's for us.  LCC's have to go on hybrids
<[Gary] GARY-S> call Marty Fraeman at J-H Kevin !!
<[Kevin] APPERT> who?
<[Gary] GARY-S> Marty Fraeman or John hayes - they just did the Johns-Hopkins 
32 bitter
<[Kevin] APPERT> oh, those guys.
<[Gary] GARY-S> You KNOW they've been using CAD
<[Kevin] APPERT> yes, probably Mentor or such
<[Gary] GARY-S> Who can better answer your questions
<[Kevin] APPERT> with the final simulations on a BIG mainframe --- possibly w/ 
accelerator
<JAX> is here.
<[Kevin] APPERT> rehi Jax
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> no answer?
<[Gary] GARY-S> I remember Marty telling me he used a MAC a lot - maybe for 
some of the design work
<[Kevin] APPERT> the cost/beni ratio  of a mac is unnacceptable
<[Gary] GARY-S> J-H Applied Physics lab, Laurel, Maryland
<[woof.] JAX> well, till sunday.
<[woof.] JAX> has left.
<[Gary] GARY-S> g'nite all
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> night nite
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