Minutes of FIGGY BAR RT Conference.

Date: 10/17/91   Time: 22:09EDT

 Items discussed include finding a case sensitive bug, Forth contact from
 ROC, F83 vs Forth-83, where is Forth's niche

Attendees:
[GARY-S]
[[Wil] W.BADEN1]
  
Minutes:
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> is here.
<GARY-S> Hey Wil - welcome
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Hi gary.
<GARY-S> I just picked up mail from some Forthers in Taiwan
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Name?
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Are they in ROC FIG?
<GARY-S> I was wondering if you might recognize a couple of them...
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Roll them.
<GARY-S> the mailer was Cy Chou...
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> No.
<GARY-S> he was speaking on behalf of a group that incldes Dr. Borlong-Lin
<GARY-S> other names not listed
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Still no.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> All Taiwan got Forth from Ting, but it has spread.
<GARY-S> I'll post the message and my reply to 'Distant drums' tomorrow
<GARY-S> This group has discovered ForthNet
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> How
<GARY-S> via a Usenet feed and/or Fido (level 6)
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Gee, before I logged in I was in my manic phase.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> I'm working on my papers for FORML.
<GARY-S> How goes it ?
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> It looks good.
<GARY-S> What was the unbalanced C bug you had (is it 3 weeks ago ?)
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> If SCCS "Source Code Control System" is pronounced "Sucks", 
then FCCS Forth Code control System is pronounced how?
<GARY-S> F C C S - Eff See See Ess
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> It was Forth -- all control flow words were upper case BEGIN 
IF THEN, etc.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Except there was an extraneous lower case "begin".
<GARY-S> ARRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHH !!!!!
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> which I couldn't see because my mind set was for upper case.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> This is one of many reasons why I'm for case sensitivity.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> I should have turned case insensitivity off.
<GARY-S> The TC doesn't seem too concerned about it
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Then it would have choked on "begin" not "THEN".
<GARY-S> SCCS shows your SysV bias <smile> does FCCS show your F-83 bias ?
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Case forgiveness is nice when you're typing interactively.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Why SysV?  I use SunOS.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> I like(d) F-83; I've never liked Forth-83.
<GARY-S> Doesn't SunOS support Revision Control AND SCCS ?
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> SCCS comes with it; I've not got ahold of RCS.
<GARY-S> hmmmm - I obviously do not have a Sun platform
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> There is RCS for it; I just don't have it.
<GARY-S> back to Forth. I used the term F-83, not Forth-83
<GARY-S> I know a lot of people equate the two
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Good, as I said I like(d) it.
<GARY-S> why the past tense
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> The best thing that happened to Forth was F-83; the worst was 
Forth-83.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> I haven't used it since 1986, when I switched to Zen.
<GARY-S> got any specifics to add to a rather blanket statement
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> F83 was an outstanding implementation that took Forth out of 
the bit-banging stage.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Forth-83 was soggy: half baked and all wet.
<GARY-S> I have tried to get Martin to appear as a RTC guest, but so far 
without success
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Their ideas on DO loops and quotients and canonical true 
gratuitously cost Forth millions of dollars, and \
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> overextended the standardization effort.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Of course, some F-83 ideas were sophomoric, too.
<GARY-S> I think we are both disheartened by the current process, and I know 
the participants are trying to do the best they can - and I frankly, coul
d do a Hell-of-a-lot worse
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> I thought ?DO was a great idea -- it made Forth loops work 
like the rest of the the languages.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Yes.  The Draft Proposal is very good.
<GARY-S> I just wonder if interest will be regenerated in the effort when dpAns 
is actually released ?
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> In what effort?
<GARY-S> X3J14
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Well, that's what we hope.
<GARY-S> The test bed Dennis established in the RT is getting mostly ignored
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Dennis comments were very good; I'l have to look at them again.
<GARY-S> Have you been watching the mail from Charles Small, EDN editor ?
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Yes.  He's right.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Forth's edge is "dedicated applications  with restricted 
resources".
<GARY-S> I offered to send him the set of files we built Grapevine from, but he 
wanted me to hand pick and sort them first. No way.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Good for you.
<GARY-S> Hell - he's the BBS SysOp, and expects me to determine his wants ???!!!
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> He's just trying to build circulation.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> (without working for it)
<GARY-S> \Wil - we aren't going to have company tonight  - want to call it a 
night ?
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Yeah, my wife wants to go out.
<GARY-S> Then take the lady out. ;-)
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> 10 and counting.
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