Sub: Minutes of your RT Conference.

>From Steno: Jennifer Marlowe

Date: 09/15/88   Time: 22:11EDT
Attendees:
[D.RUFFER]
[M.WRIGHT12]
[[Yet Is Jax] VESTA]
[[Alan F.] ATFURMAN]
[J.SHIFRIN]
[L.FORSLEY]
[[Cliff] C.MORAVETZ]
[[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN]
[R.FRAZEN]

Minutes:
<D.RUFFER> haven't had time to look at it yet
<D.RUFFER> ok there we go
<D.RUFFER> haven't really had any time tonight....
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> I wrote it because I need it for a project I'm working on 
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> every now and again...adding Modula-2 style modules to
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Forth
<D.RUFFER> just got home about 7:30, and answering e-mail since
<D.RUFFER> well, if you give me a minute, I can look now
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Ok
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> It's real short (or I can dump it up now)
<VESTA> is here.
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Hey Jax
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA> yo.
<D.RUFFER> no dave, Im running under topview
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> It's an official meeting of the "Fraser Fan Club"
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Ohh
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA> Is he any relation to Warnier/Orr?
<D.RUFFER> How'd Orr get in here?
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> I dunno. Oh. I think I got Dijkstra interested in Forth. 
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> But he won't speak at the conference (although he may
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> show)...he is too busy (galley proofs to edit and
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> another conference)
<R.FRANZEN> is here.
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA> hi rich
<R.FRANZEN> Howdy.
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> But I gave him two references to get, "Forth: A Text and a 
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Reference" and "Thinking Forth"
<D.RUFFER> good choices
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA> ...ALL> jax is multitasking, don't be surprised if I 
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA> don't answer comments directed at me for a minute or two.
<D.RUFFER> so am I jax <grin>
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> But Jax...we're always surprised when you answer (even 
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> more so when the answer is cogent)     :-)
<D.RUFFER> I've got Daves binding package in another window
<ATFURMAN> is here.
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Waddya think?
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> (that is the [runtime] package your looking at, right?)
<D.RUFFER> do-foo?   Hi alan
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Yep..it is...heh
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN>
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Hi Alan
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> Did I see a notice for 15 minutes ago?
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> No one was around here then.
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> <- been here since 22 past
<D.RUFFER> no, I got here late
<D.RUFFER> just put up the notice about 5 minutes ago
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> Larry Forseley, non?
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA> what notice?
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> That's the 6th
<D.RUFFER> sent him a note tonight
<D.RUFFER> but he didn't mention if he'd show up tonight
<D.RUFFER> the one on the door to the RTC jax
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> So...
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> So.,..what do you think of the [runtime] word?
<D.RUFFER> do we have a topic tonight?
<D.RUFFER> I'm still "analyzing" dave
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA> what file?
<D.RUFFER> Dave just posted a late binding package
<D.RUFFER> well not quite what I'd call a package
<D.RUFFER> just a short file
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Few pointers:  [""] is immediate, and compiles a counted 
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> string into the dictionary...when the compiled word is
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> run the address of the string is on the stack
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> ". prints a counted string
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA> foo where is peckedge, keptin?
<D.RUFFER> let me try to send it to ya all
<D.RUFFER> hang on to you capture files :-)
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA> arrrghh not the dreaded GEnie conference upload??????
<D.RUFFER> maybe, just a minute
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Or I can upload it
<D.RUFFER> \         --dave (9/15/88)
<D.RUFFER> : (runtime)     ( word-name-addr -- )
<D.RUFFER>                 ( finds word-name and executes it if it exists, otherwise )
<D.RUFFER>                 ( it aborts with an error message                         )
<D.RUFFER>         ( word ) find if
<D.RUFFER>                 execute
<D.RUFFER>         else
<D.RUFFER>                 ". abort" not found"
<D.RUFFER>         then
<D.RUFFER>         ;
<D.RUFFER> : [runtime]     ( -- )
<D.RUFFER>                 ( input stream: <name> )
<D.RUFFER>                 ( changes the binding of <name> to runtime instead of compile )
<D.RUFFER>                 ( time                                                        )
<D.RUFFER>         [compile] [""]                  \ Compile <name> into the dictionary
<D.RUFFER>         compile (runtime)               \ and add the code to find and
<D.RUFFER>                                         \ execute <name>
<D.RUFFER>         ;
<D.RUFFER>         immediate
<D.RUFFER> how'd that look?
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA> it's a mess.
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Like what I wrotye
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> -y
<R.FRANZEN> a little ruffer than I'm used to.
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA> right
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> urrggggeeeeee
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> <wince> <wince> <wince>
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA> don't wein, dave.
<D.RUFFER> did it get messed up in the transfer?
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA> probably in the writing.
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Go jax off vesta
<D.RUFFER> shall I try it again?
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> :-)
<R.FRANZEN> no, we need to strip your name, though.
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA> that's my new comm protocol ...
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Let me
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA> jaxon/jaxoff.
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Here goes:
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> \                  Runtime Binding for F83
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> \                written by David Weinstein
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> \
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> \   This simple pragma -- [runtime] -- (and its underlying word...(runtime) )
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> \   allows programmers to bind a name to its function at runtime, instead of
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> \   compile time.
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> \
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> \   Example:
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> \     : foo     ( -- )
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> \          [runtime] do-foo ;
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> \
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> \   : do-foo beep ;
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> \   foo   (beeeeeeeeepppppppp)
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> \   : do-foo ." Hehehehe" cr ;
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> \   foo
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> \   Hehehehe
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> \   forget do-foo
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> \   forget do-foo
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> \   foo
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> \   do-foo not found
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> \
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> \   (you get the idea)
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> \
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> \         --dave (9/15/88)
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN>
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> : (runtime)     ( word-name-addr -- )
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN>                 ( finds word-name and executes it if it exists, otherwise )
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN>                 ( it aborts with an error message                         )
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN>
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN>         ( word ) find if
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN>                 execute
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN>         else
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN>                 ". abort" not found"
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN>         then
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN>         ;
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN>
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> : [runtime]     ( -- )
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN>                 ( input stream: <name> )
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN>                 ( changes the binding of <name> to runtime instead of compile )
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN>                 ( time                                                        )
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN>         [compile] [""]                  \ Compile <name> into the dictionary
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN>         compile (runtime)               \ and add the code to find and
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN>                                         \ execute <name>
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN>         ;
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN>         immediate
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN>
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN>
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> How'd that go...
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> ???
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> Well enough I can hit you with a question...
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Ok
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> I recently used a little "vectoring of words"...
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> similar to deferred words...
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> and I got to thinking: what if I compiled the deferred 
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> word's guts
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA> ^^^^ needs typing lessons
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> and plugged in the pointer, and everything was fine, then 
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> forgot the
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> content word.  Then the patched pointer would be pointing 
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> outside the
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> dictionary.  The code would probably still be there, and 
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> be valid.
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> But: what if I compiled something else, but did not bind 
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> the
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> deferred word to something new.  Then points to garbage.  
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> What to do?
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> This doesn't do anything like that. It holds the name of 
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> the word (the string)...
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> Is this a worry down in the noise, that I should just 
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> forget about?
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> <end>
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Then it uses find to search the current dictionary for the 
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> word, and executes it if it is there. So it never points
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> to garbage.
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA>
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> .
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA> Nice, kinda silly tho
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA> .
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Why silly?
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA> DEFER does something similar.
<D.RUFFER> there is deffinitely a problem with line length
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> No it does not.
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA> without programmer intervaention.
<D.RUFFER> I think I've solved it, shal I try it again?
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA> Yes it does. If you execute an uninitialized word, you 
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA> get ...
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> I need to be able to look up different words in different 
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> didictionaries (i.e. even defer has a binding to one word)
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA> " uninitialized execution vector.
<R.FRANZEN> (no, Dennis, I think we have it.)
<D.RUFFER> this is NOT a defered word concept
<J.SHIFRIN> is here.
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA> Well if you want that, you can build in a multiple vector 
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA> word that tests CONTEEXT.
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA> Hi Jerry.
<D.RUFFER> hi jerry, hop right in :-)
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> This is far simpler
<J.SHIFRIN> Hi all
<J.SHIFRIN> What's up?
<D.RUFFER> this is by far simpler jax
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Discussing a new binding package I cooked up yesterday
<D.RUFFER> gonna have to send it again for jerry's sake
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA> OCTOBVER 1ST --- REALTIME CONTROL & FORTH BOARD (303)
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA> 278-0364
<J.SHIFRIN> Hey - way to go!
<D.RUFFER> nice ad jax
<R.FRANZEN> Alan, in specific answer to your question...crash!
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> A Jaxvert
<D.RUFFER> ready to capture again?
<J.SHIFRIN> Jax, can I publicize this?
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA> foo.
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA> yes jerry.
<C.MORAVETZ> is here.
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA> I will tonite, if I get on ECFB
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA> I have an ad prepared.
<D.RUFFER> here goes for the late comers
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA> Would like to upload it here, but &^*(&%(*&^ GENIE!
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Hey Cliff...still slumming in C???? (:-)
<[Cliff] C.MORAVETZ> Not at the moment.  Got laid off.
<D.RUFFER> why can't you upload here jax?
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Ouch. Sorry to here that.
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> hear even
<[Cliff] C.MORAVETZ> Yeah, 29 out of 56 people go laid off.
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA> Well, GEnie and my computer aren't on speaking terms.
<D.RUFFER> huh?
<J.SHIFRIN> Those durn Amigas(!)
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA> I have a CR-only file made, but GEnie won't swallow it 
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA> ascii upload.
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> What happenned?
<[Cliff] C.MORAVETZ> Chapter 11.
<D.RUFFER> upload it binary, and I'll "fix" it
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Ouch
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA> You want it cr-only, or cr-lf?
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA> or lf-only?
<D.RUFFER> doesn't matter, I'll fix
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA> brb
<[Is Jax Agin] VESTA> has left.
<D.RUFFER> are we ready to get back to late binding?
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Ok
<[Cliff] C.MORAVETZ> We've been in chap. 11 for a long time.  The creditors 
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> finally got up in arms and decided to put in a trustee.
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Then things changed.
<D.RUFFER> jerry and clif, would you like to see the code?
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Uhhoh...more on Gilbert
<J.SHIFRIN> Dennis, if possible, I'd like to get the disks back from you to 
<J.SHIFRIN> stock Jax's BBS.
<[Cliff] C.MORAVETZ> What code?
<[Cliff] C.MORAVETZ> Morse? :)
<J.SHIFRIN> I lost track. What code?
<D.RUFFER> Boris hasn't gotten me the last of them yet jerry
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> A pragma I wrote to cobind words at runtime instead of 
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> compile times
<D.RUFFER> I'll bug him again tomorrow
<D.RUFFER> here it comes
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> -co
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> Late [you should live so long even] binding
<D.RUFFER> ready your capture file
<J.SHIFRIN> Can you send back what you have (I'm pretty low on disks and new 
<J.SHIFRIN> stock hasn't arrived).
<D.RUFFER> \         --dave (9/15/88)
<D.RUFFER> : (runtime)     ( word-name-addr -- )
<D.RUFFER>         ( word ) find if
<D.RUFFER>                 execute
<D.RUFFER>         else
<D.RUFFER>                 ". abort" not found"
<D.RUFFER>         then
<D.RUFFER>         ;
<D.RUFFER> : [runtime]     ( -- )
<D.RUFFER>                 ( input stream: <name> )
<D.RUFFER>         [compile] [""]
<D.RUFFER>         compile (runtime)
<D.RUFFER>         ;
<D.RUFFER>         immediate
<D.RUFFER> sure jerry
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Also...[""] is immediate and compiles a counted string 
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> into a dictionary entry, leaving the address of the
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> string on at runtime, and ". prints a counted string
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> And Gilbert is headed straight for Austin
<[Cliff] C.MORAVETZ> Well, if you see Gilbert, tell him I said Hi.
<J.SHIFRIN> Where are you, Dave? I have a bro in Austin.
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> I have a few more vulgar things to say to Gilbert.
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> 24th and Lamar
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> (near the UT campus)
<J.SHIFRIN> ???Is that Austin?
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Is what Austin??
<J.SHIFRIN> 24th and Lamar.
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Yes
<[Cliff] C.MORAVETZ> Austin is my left foot, Fred is my right foot.
<R.FRANZEN> g'nite, ya'll
<[Cliff] C.MORAVETZ> Bye, Franzen
<R.FRANZEN> has left.
<M.WRIGHT12> is here.
<[Cliff] C.MORAVETZ> Hi M.
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN>
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Hullo M
<M.WRIGHT12> hi
<[Cliff] C.MORAVETZ> has left.
<D.RUFFER> did we finishe bindings?
<J.SHIFRIN> What was that code for? Deferred execution?
<VESTA> is here.
<D.RUFFER> sort of late binding jerry
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> No. It is used to bind a word at execution time. This 
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> means that it will pick the first word in the local
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> dictionary to use
<D.RUFFER> dave wrote it
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> what *use* do you envision for this concept?
<J.SHIFRIN> Dave, I looked over your BINDING file. Very nice. Is this more of 
<J.SHIFRIN> the same?
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Well. I am using it in the Modula-2 style module package I 
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> am writing for Forth
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Yes...this is very similar,m but even later binding
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> -m
<J.SHIFRIN> I didn't get a chance to play with it. Maybe soon... Hope you can 
<J.SHIFRIN> put up an updated package.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> ( jerry hustles more software for his board :-))
<D.RUFFER> just got one tonight jerry
<D.RUFFER> I'll get it unhidden soon
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> The update would be a rewrite of load...since load does 
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> not work with this package in Mitch's Forth)
<J.SHIFRIN> Well, I'm trying to justify buying the Perstor controller (ARLL!).
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> what is?
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> OH hd controller.
<J.SHIFRIN> Gives you twice the capacity of a disk (20 meg >> 40).
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> RLL ... doesn't work with F83S
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> *{crash}*
<J.SHIFRIN> F83S??
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> F83S
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> by baden &c.
<J.SHIFRIN> I'll byte. F83X?
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> more f83x, f83y, F83S.
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> S for Son of F83X?
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> F83S is distributed by the San Francisco Forth Interest 
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> Group.
<D.RUFFER> he's gonna run out of letters soon :-)
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> Yes alan.
<J.SHIFRIN> I see. An arrangement of the alphabet I hadn't previously seen.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> It is Super L&P with seperated heads.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> Best screen editor in the Forth world.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> Bar none.
<J.SHIFRIN> Compare it to F-PC, please.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> Same relationship as L&P <> F-PC. F83S is Baden's souped 
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> up L&P ...
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> with the best screen editor in existence.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> .
<J.SHIFRIN> Guy Kelley (sp?) had a pretty nifty screen editor. Seen it?
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> name?
<J.SHIFRIN> Er...I'll have to check the board.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> Baden's is so fast it is frightening.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> I have tried ZEDIT and others.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> UGH>
<D.RUFFER> yea, what was that file jerry <grin> {searching...}
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> Badens is better than any screen editor I have on my Amiga,
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> even.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> But who uses screens for source on the Amiga?
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> (contemplates quantum mechianics due tomorrow)
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> BLOCK is a mess on the Amiga.
<J.SHIFRIN> See FEDDEMO.ARC (is here yet?).
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> Huh?
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> You *have* to use files on Amy.
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> Does this mean JAX NIX BLOX HAX ?????
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> No, BLOCK is the mainstream of Forth.
<D.RUFFER> that's the name!
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> But Amiga inverse optimizes BLOCK.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> It's the file system.
<D.RUFFER> file # 759
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> BLOCK is horrible on AMy.
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> But... but...
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> Eventually I will use the amiga trackdisk.device to write 
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> my own BLOCK system that will poduce ...
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> how do you do stuff like data bases and b-trees if you 
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> can't
<J.SHIFRIN> Don't think Guy included full source. It's PC based. Good luck on 
<J.SHIFRIN> Amiga.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> disks AMY can't read under norm al circumstances.
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> get raw disk, let alone virtual memory space?
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> Right, alan, you just use a file interface in place of 
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> block.
<J.SHIFRIN> Jax, which BBS software do you have?
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> You can make it 1024 bytes if you want.
<D.RUFFER> shades of MVP Forth JAX <yuck>
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> We ordered PCBOARD today.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> well, dennis, if your Forth is standalone, BLOCK is the 
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> answer ...
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> later y'all
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> has left.
<J.SHIFRIN> Great. If you get the current (12.1) release we're all set. If they 
<J.SHIFRIN> ship\
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> I have TWO 32-bit Forths on Amy, and I have a lot of room 
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> to manoeuvre.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> Right.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> 12.1 is it.
<J.SHIFRIN> new version, it'll take a few weeks.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> They promised free BBS upgrade to 14.0
<J.SHIFRIN> 10-4. I'll ship utilities asap.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> but we get 12.1 by tuesday next
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> thank you jerry.
<J.SHIFRIN> Gotta go now. have stay low, Dave.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> chat you on ECFB later.
<J.SHIFRIN> has left.
<D.RUFFER> bye jerry
<D.RUFFER> now, jax, are you gonna use "hard" blocks when you have files?
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> What is F83? Soft blocks?
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> what are we talking about, dennis?
<D.RUFFER> yes!
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> Oh, I see ...
<D.RUFFER> they still use the file system
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> That's the problem on AMIGA ... it is a lot of work to get 
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> around Exec ...
<D.RUFFER> but I thought I read that jax was gonna use...
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> but the handles are there ...
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> and if you want, you can use them ...
<D.RUFFER> blocks drirect to the controller.   Why?
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> When JFORTH implemented BLOCK ...
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> they made them "soft" BLOCK to keep the disk Amiga File 
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> System compatible.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> >>>
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> the problem with that ...
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> is that in a 512-byte hard block in AmigaDOS ...
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> only 488 are data ...
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> you get the picture ...
<D.RUFFER> uggg!
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> AARRGGHH!!!!
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> inefficiency^2
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> BUT ...
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> Amiga is a wonderfuly flexible machine ...
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> the handles are there in the op system ...
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> for a non-compatible file system ....
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> the    trackdisk.device    is there for use ...
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> Ah, like UNIX.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> and you can roll your own, if inclined.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> right alan ... AmigaDOS/EXEC/Intuition is like ...
<D.RUFFER> as long as it includes error correcting
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> single-user Sun Unix.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> .
<D.RUFFER> otherwise, you have "FollyForth" (ala Murdock)
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> ... /TIMe?
<D.RUFFER> .... /roll?
<M.WRIGHT12> JAX`
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> While we're here...
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> yes, m.wright?
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> I just want to check:
<M.WRIGHT12> WHERE DO I FIND FORTH FPR 8051
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> You all know that a 32-bit Forth chip is being sold...
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> hmmm ...
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> that is interesting. there is an 8051 forth somewhere.
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> by Silicon Composers, licensee of Johns Hopkins Applied 
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> Physics Lab.
<M.WRIGHT12> 8085?
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> Also, m.wright.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> The problem is I dunno if there is a Pub Domain one around 
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> for either.
<M.WRIGHT12> ROMED
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> FORTH Inc. I believe has a development environment for
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> there is definitedly romable polyFORTH for 8051
<M.WRIGHT12> FREE
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> the 8051 or 8031
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> FREE is the problem.
<D.RUFFER> interesting alan, SC is dealing the APL chip now?
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> I know who might now.
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> Also, Bryte Forth
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> .
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> that should be "know".
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> Let me look around.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> I will email you if I find something on another BBS.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> ok?
<M.WRIGHT12> CAN I ROM F83(8080) FOR 8085
<D.RUFFER> include me too jax
<L.FORSLEY> is here.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> It could be done, if you understand 1) the metacompiler 
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> and b) the 8085 assembly set.
<D.RUFFER> hi larry
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> Larry! goodness gracious!
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> If you want to roll your own ...
<L.FORSLEY> ??
<D.RUFFER> you also need to "Fix" variables
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> just write anassembler for 8051 and 8085 and metacompile.
<L.FORSLEY> Hi Dennis.  Hi Alan
<D.RUFFER> romming F83 larry :-)
<M.WRIGHT12> NOT GOOD ENOUGH
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> Hey larry.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> why not good enough?
<L.FORSLEY> Hi Jack
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> Ever fill that VAX slot?
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> Call the Air Marshall!
<L.FORSLEY> Not yet. ststill looking
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> GFL
<L.FORSLEY> eh?
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> Forth programmers are *not* a dime a dozen right now.
<L.FORSLEY> no, about 2 bits.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> ( Good F'ing Luck)
<L.FORSLEY> thanks.
<M.WRIGHT12> IAM NOT GOOD ENOUGH YET AT FORTH
<L.FORSLEY> time.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> aha ... well, mwright, that is a problem.
<L.FORSLEY> Dennis, how's 7:30 tomorrow night?
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> I'll email you if I run across such a free forth.
<M.WRIGHT12> THANK YOU
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> Why that chip? whynot buy a 8088 board with f83 on board 
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> from VESTA ( my company)?
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> Ah yes, Larry...
<M.WRIGHT12> CHEAP
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> so are our boards.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> is your time building a controller and obtaining a 
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> language worth $169.00?
<M.WRIGHT12> I LOOKED AT YOUR BOARDS
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> I know someone out Rochester way who will be doing a 
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> little Forth
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> that's what our board costs.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> Alan ... so what about the 32-banger JHAPL?
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> programming.  What is a convenient place for him to learn?
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> End of question for Larry.
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> About 32-bit chip...
<L.FORSLEY> what was the question alan?
<L.FORSLEY> Ah, I happened to hear about the jpl chip tonight.
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> Where can a Mech. Eng. type learn a little Forth 
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> programming (gad are we getting out of phase).
<L.FORSLEY> Ah, come into my parlor said the spider to the fly.
<D.RUFFER> ah but that's what makes it fun alan :-)
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> Give me specifics and I will relay.
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> E mail if you wish.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> mwright --- what is your applicaton?
<L.FORSLEY> Dennis, how's 7:30 pm?
<D.RUFFER> and now an ad from Dash Find
<M.WRIGHT12> D/A
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> alan --- when is that 32-banger for sale?
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> Um, Real Soon Now...
<D.RUFFER> I'll give you a call tomorrow to comfirm but sounds ok now :-)
<L.FORSLEY> See George Nicol fo r his new 32 bit banger.
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> My info. is a month old.  Here goes:
<L.FORSLEY> OK, Dennis.
<M.WRIGHT12> JAX CAN I CALL YOU AT WORK
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> mwright --- 303 422-8088
<M.WRIGHT12> GOT IT
<L.FORSLEY> I have a conference on a Forth like language
<L.FORSLEY> ASYST on the PC in 3 weeks.  There will be
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> new bbs for Vesta ... coming Oct 1 ... 303 278 0364
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> Eat at Joe's.
<L.FORSLEY> some introductory material presented.  Oct 9-11,
<L.FORSLEY> University of Rochester.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> burma shave ( close, for gov't.)
<M.WRIGHT12> has left.
<D.RUFFER> more specific info larry?
<L.FORSLEY> On what?
<L.FORSLEY> chips
<L.FORSLEY> dinner
<L.FORSLEY> cysts
<D.RUFFER> intro material?
<L.FORSLEY> ??
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> 32-banger????????
<L.FORSLEY> Ah, it's on Asyst.
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> you rang?
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> who has it? how much? when?
<L.FORSLEY> George Nicol.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> who he?
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> All right...
<L.FORSLEY> 32 bits.  He's playing both ends.
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> harrumph...
<D.RUFFER> is conf 9-11?
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> woof
<L.FORSLEY> Harris and APL
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> .
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> ga alan.
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> 'scuse me?
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> ok
<L.FORSLEY> is ga alan like Ga As?
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> who has 32banger Forth chip for sale?
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> JAX WANTS!
<L.FORSLEY> Harris in engineering samples
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> right
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> .
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> $$$.cc ???
<L.FORSLEY> It's Phil Koopmans.  Lots of microcode.
<L.FORSLEY> I don't know about the price.
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> No. APL.
<L.FORSLEY> Ah.  See George.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> APL ... yeah ... woof? how much?? who?? phone#?
<L.FORSLEY> Silicon composters in Palo Alto
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> ( Koopmans is WISC, write? :-) )[A
<L.FORSLEY> right.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> SC has APL?
<L.FORSLEY> he's wiscy.  I talked to him tonight.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> $$$.CC???
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> ( apl )
<L.FORSLEY> I don't know.  Ask Dave Williams at Harris.  Or, Mike Graff.  I 
<L.FORSLEY> think
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> 'scuse me...
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> any word on the Moore Buffalo CHip?
<L.FORSLEY> Williams is more interested in the 16 bit banger for the momemnt
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> ga alam
<L.FORSLEY>
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> APL32@$$$.cc??
<L.FORSLEY> I talked with one of the finaciers last summer about the buffalo 
<L.FORSLEY> chip.
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> Sorry. -60dB SNR. Checksum error.
<L.FORSLEY> Moore is on the way.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> BREAK DETECTED
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> think alan wants to say something.
<D.RUFFER> sorry, no breaks accepted at this time
<D.RUFFER> try again later
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> how about an out-of-state checksum?
<D.RUFFER> :-) ga alan?
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> .
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> ( smartest thing he said tonite)
<L.FORSLEY> Brief, and to the point.
<L.FORSLEY> Make him president.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> SO S>C> HAS APL 32 BIT CHIP >>> HOW MUCH $$$? ANYBODY?
<D.RUFFER> don't think anyone knows jax
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> woof.
<D.RUFFER> do ya want I should shut em up alan? <grin>
<L.FORSLEY> I'll guess that no chip, just boards.  About 5-8K
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> .
<L.FORSLEY> I know how George "operates"
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> arrgghhhhhhh
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> who needs ugly board ... give me chip & docs, have JForth, 
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> will Assemble.
<L.FORSLEY> What happened to Charlie Johnson's poor man's
<L.FORSLEY> 16bit banger?
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> two months as usual!!!
<L.FORSLEY> OH.  Not Gould again?
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> "Two months" .. for the last two years!
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> I see Cliff King once a week.
<L.FORSLEY> Chuck's chip was always 6 months, but then it got built.  Twice!
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> If he were eating forth chips, he would have starved by 
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> now.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> Jax gets to write editor for Charlie J. chip if it ever 
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> comes off!
<L.FORSLEY> Well gang.  See you all later.
<L.FORSLEY> Dennis, give me a call when you want.  Just give us a chance
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> Say hi to Rochester for me, and J> Benny, too.
<D.RUFFER> see ya tomorrow larry
<L.FORSLEY> to shop.
<L.FORSLEY> righty oh.
<[Yet Is Jax] VESTA> Yowza!
<L.FORSLEY> right on (wrong decade, oh well)
<L.FORSLEY> has left.
<[Pinhead] VESTA> Am I elected yet, Dennis?
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> Pinhead? Is Larry your chaperone?
<D.RUFFER> haven't even heard if we have a nominating committe yet :-(
<[Zippy P.] VESTA> Life is a blur of Republicans and meat.
<[Zippy P.] VESTA> Are we serving donuts in another solar system?
<[Zippy P.] VESTA> If you can't think of anything nice to say, say something 
<[Zippy P.] VESTA> surreal.
<D.RUFFER> just push the thumb jax...sheesh
<D.RUFFER> is it getting late...or what?
<[jax@chariot] VESTA> echo /EXI > GEnie
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> My budget says it is.
<D.RUFFER> alan did you have something to say?
<[jax@chariot] VESTA> gnite all.
<[jax@chariot] VESTA> ...???
<[jax@chariot] VESTA> alan ???
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> Good night and thanks for all the fish.
<[Alan F.] ATFURMAN> has left.
<[jax@chariot] VESTA> 42
<D.RUFFER> fish?
<[jax@chariot] VESTA> has left.
=== End of Steno notes. ===