Minutes of FIGGY BAR RT Conference.

Date: 07/25/91   Time: 22:39EDT
 
 Open FIGGY BAR of 25 July 1991. Items discussed include Forth for
 microwave/RF power controller apps, more on AnsForth, chipForth vs
 LMI, comments regarding Ray Duncan, Wil Baden remains on FIG board
 till November elections, the reason he stepped down, the job market,
 Ting & Baden to visit China, comments regarding Elizabeth Rather,
 MVP revival.

Attendees:
[GARY-S]
[[MIKE] M.KELLY36]
[[Wil] W.BADEN1]
[L.STONE6]
[[Perry] P.MITCHELL9]

Minutes:
<M.KELLY36> is here.
<M.KELLY36> Hi ...
<GARY-S> WHERE is Erial ?
<M.KELLY36> Not THE Gary Shandling
<GARY-S> hardly
<M.KELLY36> New Jersey ( Garden State )
<M.KELLY36> (cough)
<GARY-S> but where in NJ
<GARY-S> near Wildwood ?
<M.KELLY36> 20 min sse of Philly
<GARY-S> ahh
<M.KELLY36> Wildwood is by the shore.
<GARY-S> are you a Forth user/programmer/what ?
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> All of the above
<GARY-S> do you program professionally ?
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> yep. gimmee a minute to type it all in, ok?
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> We use Forth as the controlling software for a family of RF 
and microwave
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> power supplies used in the semiconductor, ICP and coating 
fields.
<GARY-S> can you say for who ?
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> ( shhh ) RF Plasma Products Inc. of Voorhees, N.J. a 
subsidiary of Plasma Therm.
<GARY-S> Interesting - I wasn't aware any uwave mfr used Forth.
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> A bit facetious, but I do realize that some users of Forth 
have told me that their use of Forth is proprietary.
<GARY-S> This is your nickle and apparently you are the only customer tonight - 
got asnything you want to discuss ?
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> Who are you ?
<GARY-S> I am Gary Smith - one of the FIG SysOps - the one who started 
ForthNet (with considerable help) and maintains it now
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> I've been following the BASIS discourse for a couple of 
months now on the ForthNet.
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> Pretty interesting stuff.
<GARY-S> Then you've seen my name a time or two
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> Yep.
<GARY-S> The defer and EKEY discussions are especially busy right now
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> I've been using Forth for 7 years or so but have only become 
interested in the rest of the Forth community lately.
<GARY-S> You see a lot of that maverickism (?) in Forth - moreso than in other
languages, except perhaps APL
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> A couple of the Standard players are familiar to me. I've 
used both FORTH Inc.
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> and LMI products  ( as well as a FIG Forth originally ).
<GARY-S> Bess Rather is VERY invloved, serving as chair....
<GARY-S> Ray Duncan is totally removed from the process
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> I call in to Vesta's BBS and have typed to Jax periodically.
<GARY-S> Vesta is quite involved as I am sure you are aare
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> Why is R Duncan a bystander?
<GARY-S> Ray invested a LOT of manhours bringing LMI into F83 compliance...
<GARY-S> and doesn't have the immediate need for an official seal of 
Standardization...
<GARY-S> that FORTH Inc does. He has taken a wait-and-see stance as a result
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> is here.
<GARY-S> Wil Baden - Mike Kelly, Mike Kelly - Wil Baden
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> MVP Wil?
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> (Mike, F83X.)
<GARY-S> Mike programs uwave pwr/sup controllers in Forth - there's an app you 
don't encounter daily
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> But a good application for Forth.
<GARY-S> I'd say so
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> I just spent two months converting an application from FORTH 
Inc chipFORTH to LMI's platform.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Mike, what were the stumbling stones?
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> " Philosophical " differences mostly but a few were ...
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> 1) No QUIT loop in pFORTH.
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> 2) No WIDTH variable in LMI.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> No QUIT loop?
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> 3) Reversed ASSEMBLER and assorted ASSEMBLER differences.
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> FORTH Inc. farmed out the job ( to U.K ) and THEY made the 
decision that the
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> 8096 applications that were likely to be encountered 
wouldn't need one ( too
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> small in scope ).
<L.STONE6> is here.
<GARY-S> The open FIGGY BARs are about anything in Forth you want to talk about,
 with no rules of order - jump in anytime you have something to say
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> LMI does not yet have multitasking support for the 8096 
metacompiler.
<GARY-S> Curious - what chip before ? 8051 ?
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> 8096/7
<GARY-S> Hi urself - come on in
<L.STONE6> this is my first time, what is this all about
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> Wil, I gotta tell ya this. When I first was cutting my teeth 
on a FIG kernel ...
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> we had a copy of MVP Forth and had a problem with something 
or other. We called
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> you up and you helped us thru it. That was about 6 years ago.
 Thanx
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Thanks for remembering.
<GARY-S> Wil - still flattening out at your place ?
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Yeah. Have you heard about ASCOM?
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> Anyway ... there are many differences ... although the 
PROVIDED diagnostics in
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> an LMI package make it our choice for now.
<GARY-S> I know LMI provides good support, too
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> I would have gladly accepted LMI Forth as is for ANS Forth.
<GARY-S> Apparently that would have pleased Boston FIG,too
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Ray Duncan is a remarkable person.  Did you know he is still a 
practicing physician?
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> I haven't read the BASIS yet ( ordered ) but I agree. A nice 
package ( once the multitasking support is hashed out ). He is very bu
sy with WINFORTH.
<GARY-S> neonatologist
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> Type THAT 5 times fast.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Gary, I'm glad Unisys sold us when they did.  They laid off 10,
000 yesterday.
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> Who WERE you ?
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> I have worked for Doelz Networks, which was bought from the 
vulture capitalists\
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> Who did Unisys sell, Wil?
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> by Timeplex, the ONLY division of Unisys that was making money.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> So Unisys sold Timeplex to Ascom and Mercedes Info. Technology.
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> Where are you located?
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Irvine CA.
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> And you Gary...
<GARY-S> I'm a Field Service Engineer for a electro-mech process controller mfr
<GARY-S> DataCard Corp
<GARY-S> privately held by Herbert Quandt family
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> California ?
<GARY-S> HDQ in Minneapolis
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> But seriously, folks...\
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> I would like it to be known that\
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> my resignation from the FIG Board of Directors\
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> doesn't take effect until the end of November.
<GARY-S> and .....
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Then the nominations will be considered and a replacement made.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> One week from today I will be in China with Dr.Ting.
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> Guess I better become a FIG member then ,
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> For 3 1/2 weeks.
<GARY-S> FIG could certainly use your influence, Mike.
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> Pshaw ...
<GARY-S> ie: FIG needs the active support and input from users in the real world
<GARY-S> Wil - For the record, I regret your pending absence. No embellishment.
I've always admired your integrity.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Thanks.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> My reason for resigning is that the executive officer 
performed a certain\
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> act against the official recommendation of the board.
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> Who is the exec of FIG , Wil?
<GARY-S> John Hall
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> What did he do ?
<GARY-S> Without taking sides, I do believe John acted in good faith...
<GARY-S> I also believe your resignation verifies what I said about your 
integrity
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Thanks, Gary.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> He made an appointment that the Board had deliberated and 
recommended against.
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> Was it his decision to make or the Board's?
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> And whom did he appoint to what post ?
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> Talk about out of touch.
<GARY-S> Not entirely - you have spoken to (or typed to) the appointee
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> advised against it.
<GARY-S> Mike - it is a matter of record, so this is silly...
<GARY-S> John re-appointed Jack Woehr (jax) as figchapters chair
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> ... after Jax blasted FIG publicly ...?
<GARY-S> yes
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> I just wanted to say that I'll be attending Figgy Bars again.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> (After I get back from China.)
<GARY-S> Thank you for that.
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> I look forward to typing to you Thursdays and Sundays then 
Wil.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Not until September.
<GARY-S> Leonard Morgenstern is host SysOp on Sunday. I get the Thursday 
madhouse
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> FORWARD in the monthly sense ...
<GARY-S> excuse me - I thought that was a collective look forward
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Anyway I wanted people to be clear that I am still on the 
board.\
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Until November.
<GARY-S> It is a matter of record now ;-)
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> Who else is on the Board?
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> John Hall, Mike Elola, C.H.Ting (V.P), Dave Petty (Boston)
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> Guess I could just pay my dues ... join ... and save y'all a 
lot of typing by reading about it in Forth Dimensions.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> (two more)
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> Elizabeth ?
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Jack Brown
<GARY-S> Robert Smith, Jack Brown
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Not Elizabeth!
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> Sorry , strike a nerve ?
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Robert Smith is no longer.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> This year he is active in the Association of Theater Organists,
 who are
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> having a convention in S.Francisco.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> -- a member of the Board.
<GARY-S> Dennis Ruffer !
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Yes, Dennis. (My face is red.)
<GARY-S> Of all the people for _me_ to overlook
<GARY-S> The lead SysOp here <grin>
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Elizabeth does Forth, not "Forth".
<GARY-S> I'm going to skewer the notes - any comments
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> This is a historic moment.  This is only the second time in 20 
years I have used\
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> Forth, not " Forth " ...???
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> an exageration mark in prose.
<GARY-S> so recorded 25 July 1991 AD
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> She calls anything that is not polyForth, "Forth".
<P.MITCHELL9> is here.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> See her postings.
<GARY-S> That's true
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> You mean in quotes ALL the time ...?
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> I posted two comments to Cat.7, Topic 17, yesternight.
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> I think I read them on the Net this A.M.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Except referring to polyForth and ANS Forth.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Or she may mean public domain "Forth".
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> Anyway FIG does "Forth" not Forth.
<[Wil] W.BADEN1> I like Elizabeth.  She is so very sane.
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> I hear MVP has been resurrected ... sort of.
<GARY-S> By Glen haydon - more than sort of
<GARY-S> Don't look for the return of big ads, but MVP is definitely in business
<[MIKE] M.KELLY36> Baby's up ... gotta go ... type to you Sun. or next Thurs ( 
or in Sept. )!!!
<GARY-S> I'm closing shop officially - you can hang around and chat as long as 
you wish
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