Minutes of the FIGGY BAR RT Conference.

Date: 06/15/89   Time: 22:30EDT
Attendees:
[[Gary] GARY-S]
[[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN]
[[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS]
[C.TING]

 Items discussed: RCFB, StarLink, Austin Multiuser Forth BBS, Zimmer conf. 6/29,
                  Chinese word processor, the tragedy of Beijing, RTX, SC32, 
                  Building a four RTX parallel platform, SIMD vs MIMD
Minutes:
<DHWEINSTEIN> is here.
<FIGCHAPTERS> is here.
<[Gary] GARY-S> How goes rocky mounmtain high
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> the bbs?
<[Gary] GARY-S> yep
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> still chariot so far.
<[Gary] GARY-S> are you guys aware of StarLink
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> StarLink??
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> .. A??
<[Gary] GARY-S> Tymnet's answer to PC-Pursuit
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> $$.$$ ??
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Not yet. Sprecht tsu uns!
<[Gary] GARY-S> more cities - including Austin and Little Rock
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> (I know...I know...I don't use YIVO transliteration...sue 
me)
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> ( nor yivo grammar!)
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Oooooooh. That would make Austin Dial-In-Able. And Austin 
will have a Forth conference.
<[Gary] GARY-S> sign up one time of $25 (I think) plus flat 1.50/hour usage
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> (On a local Multiuser BBS)
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> (Sue me....bad influence of di bubba and a few hours of 
German)
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> I'm spending less time telecomming and more time 
maintaining my own BBS.
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> (A Multiuser BBS written in the CONVERS dialect of Forth)
<[Gary] GARY-S> They tend to do that don't they (occupy time)
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> How bad is the packet delay?
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> tymnet is notorious
<[Gary] GARY-S> I have not used it
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Ahh.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> *Whose* BBS written in Forth>
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> The BBS in question is Flight. It runs on =M=C=D VIII from 
FYI.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> What is an MCD VIII ?
<[Gary] GARY-S> call 800-343-7304 for the on-line dog and pony show ala-StarLink
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> (And is in fact run in part by FYI which is an Austin 
company).
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Multiuser BBS system. Chat, databases, and conferences.
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> (512) 794-8511
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Intel? MC ? what CPU?
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Err. FLight's Phone Number: (512) 794-8511
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Runs on PC compatibles.
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> It is a great BBS (good user base, good discussions, etc).
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Part for pay (the CB section), part free (BBS). Soon and 
eventually to have some for pay conference groups. (Including Forth in t
he COmputer Tech bundle)
<[Gary] GARY-S> What is CONVERS dialect of Forth ? 83 ?
<C.TING> is here.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Howdy Dr. Ting!
<C.TING> hi..
<[Gary] GARY-S> Jax - will you post the Zimmer announcement on Well and RCFB
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Nope. It broke off a while back. The implentation is FYI's 
own.
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Hullo Dr. TIng.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Will capture next time gary.
<[Gary] GARY-S> Dr. Ting - Hi
<[Gary] GARY-S> Thanks
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> It has a lot of features which have worked back to Forth 
(streams not blocks, direct threading, etc).
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Unfortunately due to market constraints they are moving 
over to C. (They have limited programmer time and want to be able to lice
nse source).
<[Gary] GARY-S> dtl ? that's a switch - so many are opting for token threading 
now
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Anyway...should I prod them for a guest conference here????
?
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> On CONVERS and the software they have done.
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> ????
<[Gary] GARY-S> Not if they are going to abandon Forth, no
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Maybe how and why they have made the decision?
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Dr. Ting ... do you still sell Chinese WP's?
<[Gary] GARY-S> No Dave - the RTC's have been and should be for those in 
support of Forth
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Ok.
<C.TING> Jax...Yes.  I have a version for PC. Called Kuo-Chiao Chinese System.
<[Gary] GARY-S> This is the Forth RT, not corewars
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Is that the same one I bought a copy of a year and a half 
ago? In basic with the number keys?
<C.TING> Jax.  If you brought it from me, yes.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> ( Is "Kuo-Chiao" names, or with the tones would I find it 
has a literal meaning?)
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Ok, I gave that one to my Father-in-law who is going for 
doctorate.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Still same price?
<C.TING> Jax.  Still the same price.  Kuo is 'nation' and chiao is 'tall tree'.
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> (Sigh). Time for me to run. Later
<[Gary] GARY-S> Dr Ting - you may be interested in Tom Zimmer's Conference on 
the 29th since you have something of a vested interest in the popularity
 of F-PC
<[Gary] GARY-S> Dave - look for the bios and we'll get this going asap
<C.TING> Gary.  Definitely.
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Gary: I'll have the final proposal at you as soon as the 
bios get in!
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> has left.
<[Gary] GARY-S> He , like you , is not active on telecomm so it is an honor to 
present his views
<C.TING> Sorry that I have not kept in contact.  I am trying to follow what is 
happening in Beijing.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> ok, i found Kuo(2) but Chiao? (chiao(1)?)
<[Gary] GARY-S> Nothing nice I can tell you
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Are you reading USENET about china?
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Plenny stuff there!
<[Gary] GARY-S> Can you imagine the paranoia that now sweeps the country ?
<C.TING> Jax.  I am just barely getting use to Genie.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> USENET has students posting in both english and pinyin.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Friend (american) has son in Dalien!
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> He modems in daily!
<C.TING> Please help.  Write to your congressmen to cut off trade with China.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> "Same difference" as we say here ... no americans in china, 
no trade.
<[Gary] GARY-S> Will that solve the loss of human life and resource of youth ?
<C.TING> Nothing can replace the loss.  If we don't show the concern, more will 
be lost.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Our gov't has already cut off military exchanges ...
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> even Soviet is expressing concern ...
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> I cannot imagine ....
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> that China wishes to return to the era ...
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> of being an international pariah ...
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> besides ...
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> duo1 xing2 bu4 yi4 bi4 zi4 bi4 ..."too many evil deeds ruin 
the doer" ...
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> this can't go on long. The old generation there is in their 
80's ...
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> and they will have to woo back their college-educated youth 
studying abroad. ...
<C.TING> The Communist leaders are more concerned about their own skins.  We 
should not make it any easier for them.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> change will come quickly.
<C.TING> Sorry.  Let's get back to Forth.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> All our thoughts are with the students. We will all express 
our concern to congreesmen ... right gary?
<[Gary] GARY-S> We have room for such statements occassionally - those will 
stand inedited
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Has anyone gotten to "play" with the SC32?
<C.TING> Jax.  I have touched one and used it slightly.  mighty fast.
<[Gary] GARY-S> Has the SC32 added any enhancements or is it pretty much the 
J-H FRISC3
<C.TING> Dr. S. Y. Tang got SFSU to buy one SC32 for him...
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Did he build board or buy bus card?
<[Gary] GARY-S> Do either of you know ?
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> I only have docs for SC32 ... we were thinking of building 
SBC based on SC32.
<C.TING> It is SC32 card from Silicon Composers.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Nice card.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Forth on it ok?
<C.TING> The Forth is 83-Standard.  Very comfortable....
<C.TING> Dr. Tang is developing multiple precesion math Package for it...
<C.TING> He may use it to do decryption experiments.
<C.TING> I am implementing the same on RTX.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> I wanted to build a desktop computer based on four forth 
engines of some type in parallel.
<C.TING> Jax.  That's exactly what I am doing now.  I got a project from Harris 
to build....
<C.TING> a four RTX system to speed up my very fast Continuous Fourier 
Transform algorith...
<C.TING> to analyze real time signal to 1KHz.
<C.TING> However, it will not be a general purpose workstation.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> That's interesting ... it seems that as the era of Parallel 
Computing emerges, the makers of specialty chips will have to rethink
their business ... DSP perhaps could be handled more congenially in parallel 
than in a custom chip.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Are you still VAXing these days?
<C.TING> The hard part is the interprocessor communication.
<C.TING> No VAX anymore! Not even if disguised as microVAX.
<[Gary] GARY-S> HOW do you allocate jobs ?
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> How are you handling the interproc communications?
<C.TING> I wanted to build a system along the SIMD line...
<C.TING> Single-Instruction-Multiple-Datapath...
<C.TING> But it is very difficult.  For the time being, I will broadcast input 
to all ....
<C.TING> Processors and get results back on a data bus.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Have you seen the many implementations of Transputer (c) 
systems?
<C.TING> I cannot afford the transputers.  Serial communication seems the most 
logic...
<C.TING> way to connect high power processors.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> The most interesting feature ...
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> is that several implementations of multi-xputer systems ...
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> allow dynamic reconfiguration of the grid via software! 
Suddenly ...
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> under program control, your SIMD can become a MIMD, a 
pipeline, whatever.
<[Gary] GARY-S> After many revisions the CUBE still loses data
<C.TING> I do not have much affinity to MIMD structures.  SIMD is much easier 
to...
<C.TING> think and to program, while very powerful for specific problems.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> On the other hand, I confess a taste for PARLOG-type setups.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> which is *quite* MIMD.
<[Gary] GARY-S> elaborate please
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Parallel Prolog is being mapped to many hardware setups 
these days.
<[Gary] GARY-S> tnx
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Hardware prolog processors are in the pipeline for 
foundrying.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Very interesting field.
<[Gary] GARY-S> just proves Boole really did have a good idea
<C.TING> I am thinking of a structure to solve matrix problems.  Many identical 
processors...
<C.TING> are linked to gether to process columns and rows of data...
<[Gary] GARY-S> APL seems to do pretty darn good with Matrices
<C.TING> This is clearly a SIMD problem.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> APL, Gary, offers nice *syntax* for matrix problems ...
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> solution is still computationally cpu-consuming!
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> I hear that NASA is reprogramming the MPP in C! Arrgh!
<[Gary] GARY-S> It does do a nice job - if you can find zeta keyboards
<C.TING> Jax.  These are dreams.  Need money and time.
<[Gary] GARY-S> Is this straight skinny or scuttlebutt !!!
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Ars longa vita brevis.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> But *really* would like to bring up a desktop parallel 
forth workstation!
<C.TING> Translation, please.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> "Art endures, but life is short"
<C.TING> Thank you.
<[Gary] GARY-S> MPP - fact or rumor
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> rumour
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> maybe fact
<C.TING> MPP talks C, FORTRAN and Forth.
<[Gary] GARY-S> sigh
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> (What happened to MPP Pascal?)
<C.TING> Donknow.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> (Mentioned in JFAR some years back)
<[Gary] GARY-S> Any Forthisms for posterity before I send Jennifer and her 
notepad packing ?
<C.TING> The Silicon Composers did a good job in bussing their RTX boards...
<C.TING> as many cards as you can afford.
<[Gary] GARY-S> bitbuss, VME, multi ... ????
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> They are a fine team.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> ( AT bus).
<[Gary] GARY-S> tnx
=== End of Steno notes. ===