Minutes of the FIGGY BAR RT Conference. Date: 03/02/89 Time: 22:26EST Attendees: [D.BAKAS] [[Gary] GARY-S] [[Len] NMORGENSTERN] [[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS] [Bob] R.KRONSCHNAB] [[Sheila] S.COOTES] [[Kevin] APPERT] [Murray] M.ANDEREGG] [[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN] Items discussed: Sigforth ACM, 68K Forth & GEM, 68K SBC, keystroke tokens via case or array ?, Wil Baden in conference, Harris stuff, F-PC VMS, The Computer Journal, JFAR (yet) Minutes: is here. <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Gary, I'm sorry I had to leave you all in the lurch a couple of weeks ago... <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> I was going to Austin, & I thought I could take a portable. .. <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> and log on Sunday Nite... <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> But my cousin suddenly had to change plans... <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> & I couldn't do it. <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> I will be on next Sunday, as usual. <[Gary] GARY-S> no sweat - wait a sec - I'm talking to Wil <[Gary] GARY-S> I don't think there was a conf Sunday <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Give him my regards is here. <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Where is Roberts Wisconsin? Hehe, 15 miles east of St. Paul, Mn. Actually more like 20 miles. <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> I'm from Omaha myself Good to be here. Would be nice to be in Omaha. Cold here. <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Set your name by typing /Nam followed by your first name... <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> We like to be informal <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> ExGreat, Bob. How do you use Forth? <[Bob] R.KRONSCHNAB> Like so? <[Bob] R.KRONSCHNAB> Use it as a sort of hobby. <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> What machine do you have? <[Bob] R.KRONSCHNAB> Would like to learn enough to use it for something useful. <[Bob] R.KRONSCHNAB> 1 meg 520ST. <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Forthers learn fast. Within a few months, you will be modifying the editor... <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> We all do (have done) that! <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Which Forth do you use? <[Bob] R.KRONSCHNAB> Already have done that. Started out with 4XForth.... <[Bob] R.KRONSCHNAB> then worked with two local guys who wanted to write their own Forth.... <[Bob] R.KRONSCHNAB> I did the GEM bindings. <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Then you are advanced! <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> I'm looking for beginners whom I can help. <[Bob] R.KRONSCHNAB> Sort of...still need to pick up on some stuff, would also like to work on something differint. <[Bob] R.KRONSCHNAB> Have purchased the F83 source through FIG and am looking to work with that. <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> I was at the ACM (Association for Computing Machinery) meeting in Austin <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Lots of stuff about real-time processing. <[Bob] R.KRONSCHNAB> I read about that... How is it going? <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> We had 30 attendees, one from Germany. <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Also one from Denmark who wasn't there physically but... <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> sent a paper to be read... <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Very good, considering the SIGFORTH has been organized only since about... <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Novermmber. <[Bob] R.KRONSCHNAB> This is the first time I am on here... what usually goes on? <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Thursday: about half the conferences are formal, the rest are like... <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> this one, very informal. Sunday is mine, and I... <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> like to pick a topic: something technical... <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> a tutorial or discussion. <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Also informal. <[Bob] R.KRONSCHNAB> What will it be Sunday? <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> What would you like? <[Gary] GARY-S> sorry about the absenteeism - I was chatting with next weeks 'super' guest is here. <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Yes, Wil BAden himself! <[Gary] GARY-S> You bet !!! <[Bob] R.KRONSCHNAB> Well, I am sort of looking around for info on Kernal souce in 68000 Assembler. <[Gary] GARY-S> He should make for a super conference <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Gary, Jax: Bob is an experienced Forther, first tine on. <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> bob there is a file called SFORTH.ARC or somesuch ... <[Gary] GARY-S> We have a 68K kernel in the library, Bob <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> that is a 68k figforth in asm. <[Gary] GARY-S> true <[Bob] R.KRONSCHNAB> Thank you, will down load it later. <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> My experience is PC's and very little on the Mac. <[Gary] GARY-S> Jax - did you get e-mail from me via net ? <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> not in the last cupla days, gars, re: what? <[Gary] GARY-S> just a UUCP net test from lrark! <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Could I ask all of you a question? <[Gary] GARY-S> go <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> I'm trying to write a translate table to... <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> change keystrokes into actions. Simple in principle... <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> but I would like to know... <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> how others actually implement it. <[Gary] GARY-S> go jax <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> what about the model of CCFORTH in the L&P Kernel? <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> . <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> That's ok for control characters... <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> but the IBM has several hundred scan codes, what with... <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> function keys, alt keys, etc. Also... <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> I want to have the tables context sensitive... <[Gary] GARY-S> ?KEY too hard to implement ? try case of <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> so when you go from one part to another the actions change. <[Gary] GARY-S> did you copy, Len <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Say it again. <[Gary] GARY-S> use case <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> I have nested menu program up on my BBS that I wrote for an app. <[Gary] GARY-S> I had excellent results using case statements <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> menus nest deeper, then unnest as you [Q]uit back upwards. <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Gary, is case efficient? Someone told... is here. <[Bob] R.KRONSCHNAB> Have you thought about creating an array of addresses and indexing into them.... <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> me that if 15% of your keys are used, a table is more efficient than a case. <[Bob] R.KRONSCHNAB> then you could change an address in the array depending on the context. <[Gary] GARY-S> How many different keystrokes , Len ? you do have to case each one <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Bob, that is what I plan, but I have never actually done it. <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> Hi Sheila ... Harris People 'oe? <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Probably 10-15 for each menu. is here. <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Mostly arrow keys. <[Sheila] S.COOTES> Not me, but fmany friends <[Gary] GARY-S> You've got two ways to try, now - play with each <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> Thanx. <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> Hi KEevin. <[Gary] GARY-S> Welcome to our chaos sheila <[Sheila] S.COOTES> Yo! <[Gary] GARY-S> Our only rule is no rules <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> Bob, what kind o' programming you do? <[Kevin] APPERT> hi Jax. Is that all you can think of? Six and Eighting? <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> This week, Kevin, anyway! <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> My "toy" is up and running. <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> What toy, Jax? <[Kevin] APPERT> congratulations <[Bob] R.KRONSCHNAB> Just for fun stuff so far.... am working on a game and have also down the GEM interface for a custom FOrth. <[Gary] GARY-S> Hey - jax - are you a car richer tonite ? <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> What do you think of a 68008 board, Len ... <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> with a duart ... <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> and an edge connector ... <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> 64 k sys rom, ( 32 bit L&P Forth ) ... <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> 64 k program rom ... <[Kevin] APPERT> Atari ST Gem, or 8086 Gem, Bob? <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> 64 k RAM ... <[Bob] R.KRONSCHNAB> ST GEM. <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> and an edge connector for expansion ... <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> for about $185 ? <[Bob] R.KRONSCHNAB> Jax appears to be multitasking. <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> What can I say, Wow! <[Gary] GARY-S> RAM expansion ? <[Kevin] APPERT> have you looked at Mitch Bradley's GEM interface for FORTHMacs? <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> Yup, we call it "interlace mode" here, Bob :) <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> (Sorry someone just came to the door -- have to leave) <[Len] NMORGENSTERN> has left. <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> right, gary ... the edge connector is for a ( yet to be designed but simple ) expansion socket board ... maybe $95. <[Gary] GARY-S> All you new/late arrivals next week is a formal conference with Wil Baden as guest ! <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> up to 1 meg memory total on 68008. <[Gary] GARY-S> That's expansion enough <[Kevin] APPERT> I'll bring a tie. Wil is into kinky stuff. <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> for a controller, i should think so. At least this year. <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> ( those prices are not offers, that is my "guesstimate" of our eventual sale price) <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> ( this is JAX not VESTA speaking. <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> ..) <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> . <[Gary] GARY-S> What do Sarns say? <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> Sarns say, "Bye" and take airplane east for a business meeting. I gues when he comes back we go car shopping :-) <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> said also "I'm satisfied". <[Gary] GARY-S> Sheila - you handing out RTX's to the crowd ? <[Kevin] APPERT> you with Harris, Sheila? <[Gary] GARY-S> Are you there, Sheila ? <[Sheila] S.COOTES> Boy, how dumb (and new) can I be? What's RTX? I'm with the school system, not Harris. Have a good friend who is a "repair chief " there. (for their computers) <[Kevin] APPERT> or is it GE/RCA/INTERSIL/.../Joe's TV Repair/Harris these days? <[Gary] GARY-S> I just figuered everyone in Melborne was up to their hip-pockets in RTX's is here. <[Sheila] S.COOTES> My friend is looking for another position. He thinks they are in hot water - money wise. <[Kevin] APPERT> Harris makes a chip called the RTX which executes Forth language directly <[Sheila] S.COOTES> Thanks <[Gary] GARY-S> Sorbus is hiring - Sorbus is ALWAYS hiring is here. <[Gary] GARY-S> Tell your friend that <[Sheila] S.COOTES> Other phone's ringing. Gotta go...... <[Kevin] APPERT> Harris sells everything they can make in standard products. How could they be in trouble, I wonder. <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Hullo <[Sheila] S.COOTES> has left. <[Gary] GARY-S> hi Mr. VMS <[Kevin] APPERT> hi Dave ?Hello <[Kevin] APPERT> does that stand for Verry Mediocre System? <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Don't say that so loud Gary...say VM or VirtMem...VMS calls up horrific images of Vaxen... <[Kevin] APPERT> oh, I thought you ment Vax-VMS Gary <[Gary] GARY-S> Dave is making VMS go on F-PC <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> ssee....See...SEEE Gary! Look at the rumors you start! :-) <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Has made. It works fine. <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> Why not, they have ported UNIX to the Z80. <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> How can you fit Unix in 64k? <[Gary] GARY-S> I was just giving you CYA room - how come it isn't uploaded ? <[Kevin] APPERT> yuchhh what a horrific concept. VMS is a trademark of DEC <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> swap swap swap swap swap swap swap .................... ....... <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Cause I have to finish the paper I promised dan for Monday, ...and I have work for a class and I'm going to dallas tomorrow... <[Murray] M.ANDEREGG> Anybody use forth on a Mac out there? <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> it's called (( appropriately, jaxthinx )) UZI <[Kevin] APPERT> IBM's operating system is called VM <[Gary] GARY-S> Has anyone actually run UZI ? <[Kevin] APPERT> i was using call by name, not call by value, sorry <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> "System/3 System/3...It runs all its programs in RPG...Its made by our favorite monopoly...System/3 System/3" <[Kevin] APPERT> anybody mentioned JFAR lately? <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> I've seen the new one. <[Gary] GARY-S> How come it isn't in the uploads, Dave - he asks AGAIN <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Because I have to check with Dan and make sure that uploading it won't interfere with anything with ACM... <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> If he gives the OK I'll send it right up. <[Gary] GARY-S> goodenough <[Kevin] APPERT> anybody know if Dr. C.H.Ting has an account? <[Gary] GARY-S> Where did you see a new JFAR ? <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Larry had a whole box of them at the conference of course. <[Gary] GARY-S> yes he does. <[Kevin] APPERT> what name Ting, do you know Gary? <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Along with the Rochester Proceedings (a copy of which is here at my desk) <[Gary] GARY-S> It may be C.Ting <[Kevin] APPERT> how many issues were published of JFAR last year? Am I missing some? <[Gary] GARY-S> How's the overflow article coming, kev ? <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> I'll try to have the code uploaded by the beginning of next week. <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Assuming its ok. <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> The newest JFAR is 5.2 <[Kevin] APPERT> no free time, dead in the water. nobody seems real hot for it, <[Gary] GARY-S> Oh hey Dave - call or write Computer Journal <[Kevin] APPERT> isn't 5 last year's volume? <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Why? <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> no it's not kevin. .... <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> it's 1987's volume. <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> WHERE IS MY COPY??????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????? <[Gary] GARY-S> They DO want to do some Forth articles/columns <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Ok. So they're running behind... :-) <[Gary] GARY-S> see BBS 4.7.last <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> A regular column? <[Kevin] APPERT> how many issues is Larry in A-rears? <[Gary] GARY-S> 5 <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> So that's what has been keeping larry busy, huh dave? Running behind :) <[Kevin] APPERT> I don't think he likes being the butt of all these jokes <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Gary? <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Do they want a regular column? <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> Well then he can mail out the darn magazine. <[Bob] R.KRONSCHNAB> has left. <[Gary] GARY-S> The Computer Journal,190 Sullivan Crossroad, Columbia Falls,MT 59912 <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Do they want a regular Forth column? <[Gary] GARY-S> ASK - Bill Kibler's last column implied 'yes' <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> I'll call them tomorrow (makes note). I can always use more income... :-) <[Gary] GARY-S> ph:406/257-9119 <[Gary] GARY-S> They also use Lilliput Z-node BBS want that number ? <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Naaaahhhhh is here. <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Hey...did you get the car Jax? <[Gary] GARY-S> Jax - one more time. Did you get the car ????? <[Kevin] APPERT> what kind of stuff does ComputerJournal publish? <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> I "won the contest" but the boss is out of town so I await his certification of the "prize award" <[Gary] GARY-S> grass roots hdwr/sftwr ala Micro Cornucopia <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> But Micro C doesn't want a Forth column (I bent Dave's ear again a few days back). Also...SOG SouthWest will be in Dallas late this summer. <[Gary] GARY-S> ZSDOS,C pointers, Shells - mostly newage hacker (pre-Wargames def) <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> gotta go gang gnite <[jax68008] FIGCHAPTERS> has left. <[Gary] GARY-S> this is close to a wrap - anything else ? <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Had a heavy Forth influence when it started <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> I gotta run... <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> ...thanks for the tip gary... <[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> has left. <[Gary] GARY-S> g'nite all === End of Steno notes. ===