Minutes of the FIGGY BAR RT Conference.

 Date: 02/16/89   Time: 22:16EST
Attendees:
[[Gary] GARY-S]
[[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN] 
[[Kevin] APPERT]
[[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS]
  
 Items discussed: F-PC VMS in final draft,Austin ACM SigForth conf, Fig
                  chapters via e-mail, STILL NO JFAR, Crunch and the soviets, 
                  flavors of Unix, Micro-C letter, stack overflow
minutes:
<[Gary] GARY-S> Dave - are you having a conf yet ?
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Conf starts tomorrow morning.
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> And I have to clean this place up.
<[Gary] GARY-S> no early arrivals to entertain ?
<[Gary] GARY-S> Boy - were you ever missed big time last week !!!
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Not yet. And they better not show up. The place is a 
disaster. What happenned?
<[Gary] GARY-S> Ken Butterfield was in Calif (U of C operates Los Alamos) and 
had as guest John Pratt....
<[Gary] GARY-S> and they were dead to continue the multi-tasker VMS discussion
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> "dead to continue"?
<[Gary] GARY-S> wanted to continue the discussion
<[Gary] GARY-S> and there's another part of the missing discussion
<[Kevin] APPERT> Hi Gary,Dave
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Oh. Well..the Virtual Memory system will be in the 
proceedings of the Conference (assuming I get this paper done tonight).
<[Gary] GARY-S> did you ever get the VMS going
<[Gary] GARY-S> question answered
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> I am putting the final touches on it right now (as we 
speak), and then I am finishing up my paper tonight.
<[Gary] GARY-S> That was the second anyway Dave - not last week
<[Gary] GARY-S> last week was Dumse's conference
<[Kevin] APPERT> Hi, Jax
<[Kevin] APPERT> stand alone forth was last week?
<[jax???] FIGCHAPTERS> yep
<[Gary] GARY-S> true
<[Kevin] APPERT> <kiking self for missing it
<[jax???] FIGCHAPTERS> I beg your pardon!!!
<[Kevin] APPERT> guess I read the replay
<[Gary] GARY-S> d/l it from the library - it was 90% notes anyway
<[Kevin] APPERT> what's it called????
<[Gary] GARY-S> stand-alone
<[Kevin] APPERT> ack
<[Gary] GARY-S> .txt or .arc
<[Kevin] APPERT> 90% notes?
<[Gary] GARY-S> you bet - Randy did a lot of presentation - few questions
<[jax???] FIGCHAPTERS> Lots of religion, though.
<[Kevin] APPERT> give me that real time religion
<[jax???] FIGCHAPTERS> Come ye unto BLOCK and be SAVE-FORTHed
<[Gary] GARY-S> file # 1549 is the text version, 1550 the ARC'd one Kev
<[Kevin] APPERT> if it's good enough for Chuck Moore, it's goodenough for me
<[Gary] GARY-S> did you copy appert ?
<[jax???] FIGCHAPTERS> ." Hallelujah"
<[Kevin] APPERT> thanks
<[Kevin] APPERT> yes, I copy
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> ." Ammmmmeeennnnnnnn!!!!!!!! " cr cr cr beep
<[Kevin] APPERT> "we will code our systems naitive, 'cause we find it more 
creative...
<[Gary] GARY-S> have a big disk area - it's twice as long as any other 
conference
<[Kevin] APPERT> If it's good enough for Chuck, it's good enough for me"
<[Gary] GARY-S> Dave - I have a request
<[Gary] GARY-S> Take some manner of ACM conf proceedings notes and post them
<[Kevin] APPERT> (sung to the tune of "old time religion"  --- borrowed from C.
Curley
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> I'll try. We will be publishing complete proceedings.
<[Gary] GARY-S> or -steal them from the official steno and post them
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> And I'd have to clear it with Dan anyway (don't woant to 
inadvertently break the rules)
<[Gary] GARY-S> bend them this way as a return on the extra conference with 
George
<[S. Rushdie] FIGCHAPTERS> Yes, be careful what you publish.
<[Fanatic] DHWEINSTEIN> (ferblam)
<[Fanatic] DHWEINSTEIN> 2.6 million dollars richer
<[jax] FIGCHAPTERS> $5 million for K's head.
<[jax] FIGCHAPTERS> $10 milllion for the whole body, stuffed.
<[Gary] GARY-S> everyone get their copy of JFAR ?
<[jax] FIGCHAPTERS> HAAAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAHHAHHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA
<[jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Really?
<[jax] FIGCHAPTERS> hello?
<[jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Is it out, really?
<[jax] FIGCHAPTERS> ( JFAR )
<[Gary] GARY-S> I am going to do this every single FIGGY to make sure there is 
ongoing comment about a case of duplicity at work
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Is it arriving or should we string you up to dry for that 
joke Gary?
<[jax] FIGCHAPTERS> He does that to me every week so that I post angry things 
about JFAR
<[Gary] GARY-S> I'm taking the only action at my immediate disposal
<[Iblis] FIGCHAPTERS> O ye who promise to publish FORTH and do not fulfill your 
vows!
<[Gary] GARY-S> I resent the lies so I make them public knowledge
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> WEINSTEIN ...
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> You are going to see this luftmensh Forsley at Austin, 
right?
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> When he turns around, kick him in the butt for us, ok?
<[Gary] GARY-S> luftmensh Herr Jax ?
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> One who lives on air.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> In the air, about 16 inches up.
<[Gary] GARY-S> ist Jaxism, ja ?
<[Coding Away] DHWEINSTEIN> Luftmensh. Folyak efsher, ober leftmensh?
<[Coding Away] DHWEINSTEIN> (don't you love translating non-roman characters 
into this alphabet)
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> a ganev.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> ba mir iz a romanish alef-bais far iidish.
<[Coding Away] DHWEINSTEIN> Er hat unser gelt gehot.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> abgdhvzkticlmnsyfxqr$+
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> fershteist?
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> fyr$tii$t ?
<[Gary] GARY-S> When one of you manages to post in Crylic or Kanji, then we 
talk royalties
<[Coding Away] DHWEINSTEIN> Nayn.
<[Coding Away] DHWEINSTEIN> # - Kanji for tic-tac-toe
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> U meya Kirilski alfavit, to^ze.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> oops .. "menya"
<[Gary] GARY-S> yes
<[Coding Away] DHWEINSTEIN> (People are going to love reading this figgy bar 
transcript)
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Draper sends postings from the well to the S.U.
<[Gary] GARY-S> Are you still getting netmail vis-a-vie Fig Chapters, Jax ?
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> I solicited members for FIG in russian, posted in roman 
chars.
<[Kevin] APPERT> John Draper, Capn' Crunch????
<[Gary] GARY-S> yes
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Two weeks later, FIG gets an app ... From Bulgaria!! Any 
connection? Hmm...
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Yes, I get mail all the time, mostly from US
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> But some from as far away as Finland.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Was successful in helping set up a chapter there.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Put strangers in touch, now I see a chapter exists.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> .
<[Gary] GARY-S> are you going to compile and post to keep the interest up ?
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> I was waiting for the FIG board meeting ...
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> They were going to enunciate policy ...
<[Gary] GARY-S> vapor-meeting
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> and give me my marching orders ...
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> then the meeting went the way of last fall's Board election 
:-)
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Now I have NO NEWS for my international mailing list.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> .
<[Gary] GARY-S> vapor poof
<[Gary] GARY-S> have you logged onto wetware to see our getforth command ? 
slick !
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Wish Ruffer would tell me what to do.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Getting these guys to telecom ( except dennis ) is like 
pulling teeth ...
<[Kevin] APPERT> wetware?
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Why the heck they have to get together in CALIFORNIA when 
we have an electronic meeting place I do NOT understand.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> .
<[Gary] GARY-S> Jack Brown does - but you'd expect that - so two members do, 
both sysops
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> SO let's have a meeting and establish policy so I have 
somethin in my hands except my Wang.
<[Gary] GARY-S> Yeah Kev, Wetware Diversions Unix BBS 415/753-5265
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> ... :-)
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> .
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> computer, that is.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> .
<[Gary] GARY-S> No wang jokes - I'm not doing extensive edits
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Don't you have a Wang too?
<[Gary] GARY-S> Kev - That's a local call for you, log on
<[Kevin] APPERT>     oh, unix.  Blech.  Wasted a good part of today trying to 
get STTY to work as documented
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> I haven't been telecomming too much since I have been 
spending about two hours a night working on RCFB.
<[Gary] GARY-S> I need to get a few REAL Forthers on there so help spread the 
word in the bay area, will you please Kevin ?
<[Kevin] APPERT> ok.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Jeez, now there are TOO MANY Forth boards around!
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> ... :-)
<[Gary] GARY-S> no way !
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> I agree.
<[Kevin] APPERT> You can't GIVE forth away to most unix users.  I've literally 
tried
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Forth will win the battle to survive ...
<[Coding Away] DHWEINSTEIN> Plus there is the Druma FORTH board here in Austin 
(active as a fossil)
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> because like Linus' pumpkin patch, we are more sincere!
<[Gary] GARY-S> Thanks in VERY LARGE part to Shifrin the xCFB's are more nearly 
really linked to GEnie...
<[Gary] GARY-S> now we (JAX) need to get the Unix BBS's linked and ForthNet 
will be more...
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Kev ... I have TWO Forths up on the Well ( BSD 4.3 )
<[Gary] GARY-S> than just smoke and portaghe
<[Gary] GARY-S>
<[Kevin] APPERT> can you tell if there any takers?
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> huh?
<[Kevin] APPERT> has anybody downloaded either of your two forths, or can you 
tell?
<[Gary] GARY-S> read the notes when it's posted
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> not posted for download.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Bradley's is one.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> He doesn't want it posted yet.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> The other is Allan Pratt's canine.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> You must know about that. Yawn. Snooze.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> .
<[Kevin] APPERT> nope, what's canine?
<[Gary] GARY-S> Wetware will soon have it's own cforth running on-line
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> woof-woof. Bow-wow. Pratt's forth ( circa 1983 ) is a dog.
<[Kevin] APPERT> cruddy forth,  Gary?
<[Gary] GARY-S> Pratt's was so buggy, it's easier to write fron DOCOL, NEXT on 
up
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> It is good enough ...
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> and powerlessly safe enough under UNIX ...
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> to be used for a demo forth ...
<[Coding Away] DHWEINSTEIN> (Programming like mad and writing a paper and 
cleaning up and...)
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> that people can step into from a menu while in my Forth/AI 
Conference on the WELL.
<[Kevin] APPERT> is canine a descendant of REPTILE?  sounds like one of those 
"what do you get when you cross..." jokes
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> It's been one of those weeks.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Bradley's Forth is very neet.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> That one I use on the WELL for serious.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> .
<[Kevin] APPERT> 68000 native or forth-in-C, Jax?
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> The WELL is a VAX 11/750 ( though they are buying new iron )
 ...
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> It is in C, a JSR 32-bit Forth ...
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Not too slow!
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> .
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Sigh. Oh well...I gotta run
<[Gary] GARY-S> g'nite Dave
<[Kevin] APPERT> 750?  those were the days.  we've got one of those
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> (Noise of hard work in the distance)
<[Kevin] APPERT> nite,Dave
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> They are buying something distributive, starts with an S. 
sexy machine.
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Oh. Heh. Some budding genius sliced through a trunk line 
at work today. No power for over an hour, and it took another hour to ge
t the computers working again.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> What is it, gars, that they are buying for the WELL?
<[Kevin] APPERT> shoot him
<[Gary] GARY-S> I don't know Jax
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> The MicroVax came up like a champ...but the Cyber stayed 
dead for a long time (good!)...and the Alliant had some errors coming up
 that we took a while fixing. Kevin--we don't know who the idiot is and they 
won't tell us.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Kevin, what's a big sexy multiprocessor computer whose 
manufacturer or brandname starts with "S"
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Symmetric?
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Spectrum?
<[Kevin] APPERT> Systolic?
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Dave, Ik hob nit gevoost as di hot geret mama-loshn!
<[Kevin] APPERT> Silly Systems
<[Gary] GARY-S> Sun
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Gary ... no. It is a symmetric or something.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Heavy iron.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Multiprocessors, BSD 4.3 so they can run PicoSpam.
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> Tsai Gezunt!
<[Dave] DHWEINSTEIN> has left.
<[Gary] GARY-S> Is BSD in it's incarnations or AT & T V going to triumph ?
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> There is a new System V.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> System V was just there to introduce Planned Obsolesence 
into Op SYstems.
<[Gary] GARY-S> There is also AIX and POSIX
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> BSD is hairy-chested UNIX.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Sys V is rosewater UNIX.
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> .
<[Gary] GARY-S> That's the way Sun is going
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> SUN-OS is probably the best of all for small minis ...
<[Gary] GARY-S> It is closer aligned to BSD 4.3 by a long shot
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Since SUN seems to understand what computers are for. 
They're for moving the mouse around, storing huge program files, hooking up
to transputers, and drawing string art and playing chess with.
<[Gary] GARY-S> This is expensive dead space - say something in Forth
<[Gary] GARY-S> or - let's go to the house
<[Kevin] APPERT> : truisim ." unix sucks" ;
<[Kevin] APPERT> or am supposed to have a space before the trailing " acording 
to ANSI
<[Jax] FIGCHAPTERS> Gnite, gang, jax gotta fly electronically. Next stop, 
sausalito.
<[Gary] GARY-S> What o/s do you like Kev
<[Kevin] APPERT> how about after?
<[Kevin] APPERT> stand alone polyFORTH if I have to buy it
<[Kevin] APPERT> MyFORTH if I can roll my own
<[Gary] GARY-S> no - I mean for multi-user environments , or do you also
<[Gary] GARY-S> Why don't you post your terminal emulator to the library ?
<[Kevin] APPERT> there's only one of me.  I don't recommend multi-user 
environments.
<[Kevin] APPERT> it's eccentric. (like it's author, some would say :) )
<[Gary] GARY-S> so -
<[Kevin] APPERT> and also anything I publish will come back to haunt me...
<[Kevin] APPERT> as we saw with cornicopia Fig-Forth.  I don't wanna support 
the thing!
<[Gary] GARY-S> You forget, I've used some of your code - post it
<[Kevin] APPERT> I'd have to clean it up a lot!
<[Kevin] APPERT> what did you use?
<[Gary] GARY-S> Is that a solid 'no' or a 'maybe' ?
<[Kevin] APPERT> maybe, some day...
<[Kevin] APPERT> I'm booked full time *3 until after a rocket launch in aug.
<[Kevin] APPERT> what did you use of mine?
<[Gary] GARY-S> that Micro-C for sure ... after I massaged it to fit my machine
<[Kevin] APPERT> ever see MENU: in JFAR?
<[Kevin] APPERT> that was fun
<[Gary] GARY-S> I want to say 'yes' ,but I can't be 100% sure
<[Gary] GARY-S> I know I saw it - I don't know if I played with it
<[Kevin] APPERT> I never heard word one about that one.
<[Gary] GARY-S> That's strange - makes you wonder, doesn't it ?
<[Gary] GARY-S> I HATE writing to a vacuum !!!!
<[Kevin] APPERT> there is a complete menu-bar-pull-down authoring widget in FPC
<[Kevin] APPERT> I think any mail may have gotten swallowed
<[Kevin] APPERT> I haven't heard anything from that fellow who wrote to Micro-C.
  I wonder how he is doing.
<[Gary] GARY-S> Even put-downs are better than being ignored, but very few 
bother to write anymore
<[Gary] GARY-S> He dropped me a 'thank you' saying after he wrote the letter...
<[Gary] GARY-S> he mellowed the problem out and after thinking...
<[Gary] GARY-S> things over, got the computer out and it flew for him...
<[Gary] GARY-S> he likes it, and got it going before we wrote.
<[Kevin] APPERT> I was thinking about an article about overflow flag in Forth 
arith.
<[Kevin] APPERT> I should ask Mr. Moore what he thinks about overflows.
<[Gary] GARY-S> I wish some 'REAL' articles would start appearing again
<[Kevin] APPERT> he didn't treat the issue at all that I know of.
<[Kevin] APPERT> where does one publish?
<[Gary] GARY-S> You KNOW I'm not going to say JFAR,,,
<[Kevin] APPERT>  ACM com?
<[Kevin] APPERT> what JFAR.
<[Gary] GARY-S> so that leaves FD, CACM, Dr Dobbs and ESP
<[Kevin] APPERT> ESP?
<[Kevin] APPERT> computer language, also
<[Gary] GARY-S> Embedded Systems Programming - Freeman whatever, same ones that 
do CLM
<[Kevin] APPERT> naaaaaa
<[Gary] GARY-S> then you have narrowed to CACM and FD
<[Kevin] APPERT> FD probably won't look that good on Vita, though
<[Kevin] APPERT> and CACM prob. won't be interested in discussion about 
overflow.
<[Gary] GARY-S> ACM will have a SigForth newsletter - ask Dan Miller, george 
Shaw
<[Kevin] APPERT> what do you think about overflow?
<[Gary] GARY-S> You won't get good results with it
<[Kevin] APPERT> you mean nobody's interested?
<[Gary] GARY-S> It is no improvement over underflow
<[Kevin] APPERT> oh, you were kidding.  I see
<[Gary] GARY-S> no ! it would make a good article !!! write it
<[Gary] GARY-S> kev - I've got to go, sorry
=== End of Steno notes. ===