Sub: Minutes of your RT Conference.

>From Steno: Jennifer Marlowe

Date: 02/11/88   Time: 22:02EST
Attendees:
[[Dennis] D.RUFFER]
[[LEONARD] LMORGENSTERN]
[J.SHIFRIN]
[[Gary] GARY-S]
[JAX]
[[Kevin] APPERT]
[JDHALL]

Minutes:
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER>
<LMORGENSTERN> is here.
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> hello lenoard
<LMORGENSTERN> hello
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> how are you doing tonight?
<LMORGENSTERN> Fine. I am trying to look up the commands!
<GARY-S> is here.
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> well Hi gary
<[Gary] GARY-S> Who's here ?
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> type /sta to find out, but it's just lenoard you and me
<[Gary] GARY-S> !!
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ga gary
<[Gary] GARY-S> ok
<[Gary] GARY-S> What did yuou think of the final draft I sent Jack ? ga
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> looks real nice gary...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> should help to draw some more users.  ga
<[Gary] GARY-S> I expect editorial license will..
<[Gary] GARY-S> be exercised vigorously, but anyway he has..
<[Gary] GARY-S> smoething to work with now . ga
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> yes
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I should probably correct something
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> FIG only has 2500 members, not 4000 that
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> our about suggests, but it's really not important
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ga
<[Gary] GARY-S> ok
<[Gary] GARY-S> I agree it really doesn't matter in the context of the...
<[Gary] GARY-S> piece, but if Jack asks I will give him the more accurate..
<[Gary] GARY-S> figure. Thanks for pointing it out. You got a well...
<[Gary] GARY-S> deserved 'ATTA-BOY', Leonard. You're doing a great job.
<[Gary] GARY-S> ga
<[LEONARD] LMORGENSTERN> !
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> we've pretty much gotten rid
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> of the formal !! to talk...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> it's been user preference to just...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> observe common decency
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ga lenoard
<[LEONARD] LMORGENSTERN> I would like to have your opinion about standards. I 
<[LEONARD] LMORGENSTERN> think they should deal with the nitty-gritty like
<[LEONARD] LMORGENSTERN> stack diagrams for words, etc.
<[LEONARD] LMORGENSTERN> ga
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> but we still do try to do the ga
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I think that would fall under documentation...
<[Gary] GARY-S> I have a question Dennis
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok ga gary
<[Gary] GARY-S> Since my last exchange with...
<[Gary] GARY-S> Greg, have you heard any more about the possibility...
<[Gary] GARY-S> of posting a Standards proposal form in the...
<[Gary] GARY-S> library ? I think this is a must !!!
<[Gary] GARY-S> ga
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> Why don't you bug him one more time...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> after the TC meeting that is going on right now...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> and copy the ANSFORTH$ group...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> if nobody "official" does it....
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I'll get one up myself....
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> let me know if you don't hear anything.
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ga
<[Gary] GARY-S> I fully intend to - I was sorta hoping for some 'bug' support 
<[Gary] GARY-S> in the way of an enbdorsement of my queries.
<[Gary] GARY-S> ga
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> "bug" support?
<[Gary] GARY-S> Yeah ! ...
<[Gary] GARY-S> You, Scott, Leonard, Allan...et al also inquire about a form.
<[Gary] GARY-S> Numbers do count.
<[Gary] GARY-S> ga
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I'll make a note to send a note...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I'll even offer to type it up for them...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> Greg hasn't been saying much recently...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I guess we'd better see what happens...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> is happening at the TC meeting...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> they may even decide not to use us anymore....
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> just one of the possiblities....
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> we'll have to wait and see.  ga
<[Gary] GARY-S> ok
<[Gary] GARY-S> You can't blaim Greg. He is carrying the entire load himself,
<[Gary] GARY-S> with some help now from Ted. I had thought to strip the 
<[Gary] GARY-S> specifics...
<[Gary] GARY-S> from Brotzman's proposals , and use that as a form if nothing 
<[Gary] GARY-S> else surfaced...
<[Gary] GARY-S> The main thing is make such a vehicle available.
<[Gary] GARY-S> Agreed ?.
<[Gary] GARY-S> ga
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I've got the "official" form on file here...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I'm an "official observer" to the TC....
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> and I get all the mailings....
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> actually the form is not official yet...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> but should be accepted at this meeting...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> that's why I'd like a member of the TC to post it...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I'll hear in a couple weeks what happened...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> when I get the "official minutes"...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> if we don't have anything by then....
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I'll post a copy that we can use.
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ga
<[Gary] GARY-S> E-Mail what you have to me so I will have something...
<[Gary] GARY-S> for this weeks chapter meeting, please.
<[Gary] GARY-S> ga
<[LEONARD] LMORGENSTERN> ok
<[LEONARD] LMORGENSTERN> Dennis, you used the phrase "get allhl". Does that 
<[LEONARD] LMORGENSTERN> mean "all hell"?
<[LEONARD] LMORGENSTERN> ga
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> must have been some noise...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> don't see it on my end, but it must be "I'll"
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> gary, when is your meeting?
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I will have to type it in
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ga
<[Gary] GARY-S> I need the form by Tuesday...
<[Gary] GARY-S> though the meeting is Wednesday evening. Monday would be better.
<[Gary] GARY-S> gas
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I'll try to get it typed in this weekend.  ga
<[Gary] GARY-S> TNX
<[Gary] GARY-S> next subject ?
<[LEONARD] LMORGENSTERN> ok
<[Gary] GARY-S> I've been hogging the floor
<[LEONARD] LMORGENSTERN>
<[LEONARD] LMORGENSTERN> ga
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> well it looks like "everyone" is at the TC.
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> although these have been really scarce recently...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> not may people are interested in just chatting...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I think I need to do some scheduling...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> of some "real" guests...
<[Gary] GARY-S> AGREED
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> maybe Chuck will sign in soon...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> and see my request that I sent...
<[Gary] GARY-S> !!
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> a few months ago..
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> also would like to get Greg to guest speak...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> on the standard...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I think I'll hit one of the ANSFORTH$ group up first...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> that way they can tell us what went on at the meeting.
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ga
<[Gary] GARY-S> Think we could lure Larry Forsley with a guest appearance ?
<[Gary] GARY-S> I'd sure like to break...
<[Gary] GARY-S> that ice-dam we seem to be encountering...
<[Gary] GARY-S> in the educational circles.
<[Gary] GARY-S> ga
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> Somehow, I doubt he will have time to do it...
<JAX> is here.
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> if he ever shows up, we should at least ask.
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> hello Jack!   ga
<[Gary] GARY-S> ok
<JAX> hey ... is this free form or what>
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> sort of yes Jack
<[Gary] GARY-S> Yeah - Jack, jump in !
<JAX> are you telling me to soak my head? :-)
<[Gary] GARY-S> Dennis - how about John Hayes, then ?
<[Gary] GARY-S> ga
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> how is JOhn Hayes?
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ga
<[Gary] GARY-S> John Hayes at John Hopkins...
<[Gary] GARY-S> working on the APL 32 bit chip (engine)
<[Gary] GARY-S> ga
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok
<[LEONARD] LMORGENSTERN> F"ok
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> do you know him?  ga
<[Gary] GARY-S> ok
<[LEONARD] LMORGENSTERN> Sorry I have to leave just when things are beginning 
<[LEONARD] LMORGENSTERN> to look interesting! ga
<[Gary] GARY-S> No- but Mike Nemeth does, and he is back on the RT, now.
<[LEONARD] LMORGENSTERN> has left.
<[Gary] GARY-S> ga
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ga jack
<JAX> If anybody criticises GEnie, i wd. just like to mention that ...
<JAX> i am logging in from colorado were i am employed now ...
<JAX> in a FORTH shop that advertised for this postition in Topic Eleven ..:-)
<JAX> ga
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok
<[Gary] GARY-S> GREAT tell us more
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> so you took that job....
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> can we take down the notice?
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ga
<JAX> VESTA Technologies ... Real Time process control ... take down the notice`
<JAX> but  ..
<JAX> there is a position open for in-house in Nebraska ...
<JAX> hope to make the Feb SVFIG meeting ...
<JAX> and give info to anybody interesetd ... along with
<JAX> hopefully showing off a previous projewct ...
<JAX> a wwheel balancer in FORTH ... hee hee ... ga
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> a wheel balancer huh...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> sounds real close to my line of work...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> if they have a job to offer...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> could you post a message in the Job mart?
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ga
<JAX> Sure, but it ain't VESTA, it`s somebody else ... just sort
<JAX> of have  a line on it ... will try to find out more ...ga
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> good
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> the more jobs we can keep on posting...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> the more we're likely to draw...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> just another "feature" of this RT.
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ga
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ga jack, we don't have to raise our hands do we?
<JAX> Wasn't sure ...
<JAX> thought i might have been seen as a little rude last time ...
<JAX> though i anm used to free-form from the amiga starship ..
<JAX> anybway out here in Colorado ..
<JAX> the bitch is that there aren't ENOUGH Forth programmers
<JAX> they can't maintain the code that exist already
<JAX> ga
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ah the common problem...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> not enough programmers....
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> and the programmer can't find jobs...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> actually, I think most of the "old timers"...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> have gone indepentant, and are working for...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> themselves, making "new" Forths.
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> just what we all need :-)
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> anyone know of someone looking for a manager?  :-)
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ga
<JAX> The joke is my first assignment is in the original FIG PC Forth ...
<JAX> Old FORTHS never die!
<JAX> THey just swap out to disk :-)
<JAX> ga
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> sounds like it's rewrite time :-)
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ga
<JAX>
<JAX> This thing in Nebraska is resident FORTH guru ... if anybody is
<JAX> iinterested they might take the lead in writing to VESTA and casually
<JAX> inwnquiring without making out like jax was promising anything,
<JAX> but apparently someone is pretty desperate
<JAX> ga
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I've been in that position too...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> looking for Forth programmer is not easy...
<[Gary] GARY-S> I smell a letter from Ruffer going out tomorrow. need help with 
<[Gary] GARY-S> the draft ?
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> Once I even sent a job offer to all the
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> FIG chapters, but didn't get much more...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> than a couple of resumes out of it...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> no gary, I think I've got my offer ...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> all sewn up now.  I just have to sell my house now.
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ga
<[Gary] GARY-S> !
<JAX> Where are you going, Dennis?
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ga gary
<[Gary] GARY-S> ok
<[Gary] GARY-S> Did my comment earlier...
<[Gary] GARY-S> about Mike Nemeth knowing John Hayes get..
<[Gary] GARY-S> lost in the shuffle ?...
<[Gary] GARY-S> and, me too - where ARE you going ?
<[Gary] GARY-S> ga
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> no it didn't get lost...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I'll ask the ANSFORTH$ group for suggestions...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> you might include one to Mike yourself...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok, about my potential new job...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I still don't want to talk about it much yet...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I'm always afraid of hurting a good thing...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> the most I'll say right now...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> is I'm looking at how I can afford to...
<J.SHIFRIN> is here.
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> live (I hope not to die) in LA
<JAX> hey big forth boarder j shifrin ! rah!
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> well welcome stranger!  hello Jerry
<J.SHIFRIN> Hi. Just happened to be on during the meeting...
<[Gary] GARY-S> well- come-on in !
<J.SHIFRIN> What's the topic?
<JAX> dennis!
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> nothing really, just looking at a new job
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ga
<J.SHIFRIN> You are? Where?
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> aw gee, I don't really want to let it all out yet...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> but with a company in LA...
<J.SHIFRIN> Ooops...forgot this damn protocol. Sorry.
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> that's ok Jerry...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> we've been sort of skipping it recently...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> as long as we observe other's slow typing...
<J.SHIFRIN> Oh good...It was just too slow.
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ok
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> well I hope that gives ya all a "best guess"
<J.SHIFRIN> Anyone looked at FF? (Tom Zimmer's)?
<JAX> Does this compay in LA spell FORTH all in capital letters :-)
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> almost :-)
<JAX> Wow! the big time!
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> you mean PF Jerry?
<[Gary] GARY-S> damn
<J.SHIFRIN> Retract last l[care you to a decisi Dennis?
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> huh? repeat Jerry
<J.SHIFRIN> Okay -- Tere's a new+Ks has separ;sheaders, and other stuff.
<J.SHIFRIN> Hmmm...things are getting garbled.
<[Gary] GARY-S> WHAT did you just say
<JAX> he`s talking about zimmers seperated head forth
<J.SHIFRIN> FF=PF + separate segments (full segment Forth I think)
<[Gary] GARY-S> his message had seperate headers
<JAX> pretty good thing ... i use F83s, same idea
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> does Tom Zimmer have a new version?
<J.SHIFRIN> Yes - it's FF!
<JAX> do you have f83s on your board(s)? jerr?
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> ah, no we haven't gotten it yet Jerry
<J.SHIFRIN> The ECFB has F83 for the PC, CP/M-68K, and Atari ST
<JAX> we were thinkin' about trying to metacompile the cp/m 68k forth for
<J.SHIFRIN> It's pretty big to upload (FF). Can I mail you a couple of disks?
<JAX> a standalone Amiga  system ... gawd (:-)
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> yes Jerry go ahead and I'll upload it
<J.SHIFRIN> How long is your old adress good for???
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> for a few more months at least
<[Gary] GARY-S> If in doubt send them to me.
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I'll keep everyone posted when I move
<J.SHIFRIN> 10-4. Amiga: is there a PD Forth besides MVP?
<JAX> One on this board, not too hot JForth is GREAT!!! se my article in 
<JAX> Microtimes
<J.SHIFRIN> Isn't JForth commercial?
<JAX> if you call two disks with all source except the kernal for $95 
<JAX> commercial :-)
<J.SHIFRIN> I do.
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> no kernel, boo hiss
<JAX> Ok, then write your own JSR threaded dream engine and post it
<[Gary] GARY-S> There was just something posted for Amiga wasn't there, dennis ?
<JAX> agree about boohiss no kernel ..
<J.SHIFRIN> No Amiga (drat) and I just sold my Atari ST.
<JAX> there is a 68k f83 for the amiga on this board,,, in assembler, not too 
<JAX> hot
<J.SHIFRIN> I just ordered LMI'R5for OS/2 (just gOS/2).
<JAX> but interesting ..
<[Gary] GARY-S> Maybe Shifrin can re-hack it ?
<APPERT> is here.
<JAX> you`re spelling it wrong they changed it to OS2
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> the new file is BEZIER.ARC, and does some kind of graphics 
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I think
<JAX> nobody wants half an operating system
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> hello Kevin
<J.SHIFRIN> oops. Thats LMI'I{Cfr OS!They changed it to OS|2 (OS bar 2). An OS 
<J.SHIFRIN> except for a couple of things?
<JAX> ha ha!
<[Kevin] APPERT> hi Dennis, who wants an operating system at all?
<JAX> like a user interface, ferinsttance
<JAX> right on kevin
<J.SHIFRIN> You must be a UNIX user!
<JAX> FORTH lives on its own
<[Kevin] APPERT> make mine naked polyFORTH
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> oh no it's kevin and his naked system :-)
<J.SHIFRIN> No Forth is an island.
<[Kevin] APPERT> or MyFORTH
<JAX> or how about a standalone 32 bit f83  without amigaDOs
<JAX> i keep polling these guys about ERP ... Exec replacement project
<J.SHIFRIN> ERP???
<JAX> Amiga has 256 k for a standalone in ROM
<JAX> That would be quite a FORTH engine
<JAX> C or no C
<JAX> :-) ga
<[Kevin] APPERT> did they want to replace all their executives (what would they 
<[Kevin] APPERT> do with the surplus three piece suits?)
<JAX> no no no silly boy ...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> but could you link to C :-)
<JAX> exec in the dispatcher/os for AMiga ... yes i can link to C, can`t 
<JAX> everyone these days?
<J.SHIFRIN> If CBM were serious they wouldnelling PC clones.
<JAX> We're talking standalone here ... a FORTH engine residing on the Amiga 
<JAX> hardware
<JAX> they are selling pc clones, called the "Colt" to be announced soon says
<JAX> amazing computing
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> and even ATARI is going to show PC clones
<J.SHIFRIN> They already are! I've seen them.
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> any good?
<JAX> Excuse jax while he go throw up ...
<J.SHIFRIN> Beats me. They all look alike to me (and I have several).
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> know what you mean :-)
<JAX> Who is using the super8?
<[Kevin] APPERT> Gary Feirbach(sp?)
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> is ZILOG even shipping it yet?
<JAX> You bet , and holding super8 classes ( $500)
<J.SHIFRIN> Phil Smith (he's on the ECFB right now) has done some Super8 work.
<JAX> Will have one in my hands wednesday
<JAX> guess i better logon ECFB and chat phil ... but it`s all for fun ...
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> INNER ACCESS is doing classes, I heard.
<J.SHIFRIN> I've played a bit with the M68HC11 from NMI. It's pretty nice if 
<J.SHIFRIN> you're a hacker.
<JAX>
<[Kevin] APPERT> yes, Gary is @ innerds access
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> that explains why they've had chips
<J.SHIFRIN> Any of you going to the Stds mtg?
<JAX> say about the MC68hc11 ... is forth chip?
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> Stds meeting is almost over Jerry
<J.SHIFRIN> The chip is optimO{C. NMI supplies OM with Today and tomorrow, 
<J.SHIFRIN> right?
<[Kevin] APPERT> I recommend Charles Curley's "FORTH Non-Standards Team" 
<[Kevin] APPERT> document in library on GEnie
<J.SHIFRIN> Yeah, that was cute.
<JAX> But the great thing about FORTH is that a bum standard can't kill the 
<JAX> language
<JAX> not that I think that's what's going to happen.
<J.SHIFRIN> Forth-83 took a pretty good shot.
<JAX> what`s wrong with forth-83?
<[Kevin] APPERT> 16 bits !!!!!!!!!!!!
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> but it did "mess" with enough, and Forth is still here
<[Kevin] APPERT> screwed up devision!!!!!!!!!
<J.SHIFRIN> ought to be enough for anyone, right?
<JAX> Yeah, but it`s all just FORTH emulation anyway until we're running on 
<JAX> FORTH chips
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> messed up loops
<[Kevin] APPERT> loops , and about 22 other things
<J.SHIFRIN> Ragsdale vocabularies!
<[Kevin] APPERT> don't get me started
<J.SHIFRIN> Redefine PICK and ROLL
<JAX> I`ve been eating & dressing for a cupla years on that free F83 that L& P 
<JAX> wrote god bless 'em
<[Kevin] APPERT> I like also/only.  let's vote?
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> and on and on
<J.SHIFRIN> Boooooo
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> only if optimized!
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> F83 is VERY slow about doing it.
<JAX> What do you expect from an orphan forth running on a) pascal chips ( 
<JAX> intel) and b) c chips 68000
<J.SHIFRIN> Don't need vocabs. Need extensions!
<[Kevin] APPERT> mine is big enough as is. don't need extensions
<JAX> we need standalone forth engines & multiuser forth mainframes like in 
<JAX> Europe
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> are we starting an argument.  YES WE DO NEED VOCABULARIES
<JAX> amen
<J.SHIFRIN> The standard dos.Okay. I'll+Why?
<[Kevin] APPERT> lets back up a little. Jax: also/only?
<JDHALL> is here.
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> to hide the definition of 1, 2, 3, in an trick I use
<[Kevin] APPERT> hi john
<JAX> whIt`s a agreat innovation for the time. also/only
<[Gary] GARY-S> hey j,.d.
<JDHALL> hi all
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> well another stanger.   Hi John
<J.SHIFRIN> Question for John??
<JAX> hail hall
<[Gary] GARY-S> we DO need extensions !
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> Kevin, don't you know about also/only?
<JAX> mine is long enough already .. :-)
<JDHALL> sorry I am late, I just got home!! oo
<J.SHIFRIN> John: what's the availability of FIG conference videos to local 
<J.SHIFRIN> chapters?
<[Gary] GARY-S> Busy party, John - jump in
<[Kevin] APPERT> yes I know, wanted to vote on who likes/doesn't
<JDHALL> Knew you would ask! Still working on outline of videos. oo
<[Gary] GARY-S> Abstain
<[Kevin] APPERT> been using also/only on modified fig forth since Ragsdale 
<[Kevin] APPERT> seminal paper(and T shirt)
<JAX> like! also-only
<J.SHIFRIN> ??oo??
<JAX> over and out = oo
<J.SHIFRIN> 10-4.
<[Gary] GARY-S> John  Donald Long STill will be glad to help - WHEN ????
<JDHALL> SOON!!!! Two Weeks or less. oo
<[Gary] GARY-S> REAL+LY ?
<[Gary] GARY-S> I'll tell him tomorrow
<JDHALL> 87 FORML also oo
<[Gary] GARY-S> NEED my number - or his ?
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> any more on diskettes John?
<J.SHIFRIN> Will you announce something on GEnie? Where?
<JDHALL> I have Donals number .  thanks oo
<[Kevin] APPERT>
<[Gary] GARY-S> Gotta go - bye troops
<[Gary] GARY-S> has left.
<JAX> aloha
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> yes Jerry, I will announce it!
<[Kevin] APPERT> < putting combat boots up on desk
<J.SHIFRIN> Sorry, Kevin. I don't like only/also.
<JAX>
<J.SHIFRIN> Just seems to me like more unnecessary clutter.
<[Kevin] APPERT> how 'bout you john? like also/only or not?
<JAX> aren't they  a means to an end?
<JAX> like, examine the metacompiler & assmebler, frinstance
<J.SHIFRIN> Which end do you mean?
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> complicated but powerful if you learn how to use
<JAX> the f83 vocab structure was very innovative for it's time
<JAX> the metacompiler was a dream
<JAX> still ain't bad, tho 32 bits is hard to meta
<[Kevin] APPERT> the first working one distributed in machine readable form!
<JAX> right on ..
<JDHALL> Yes, the 83 vocabulary is under utilized and anly/also is really 
<JDHALL> necessary. oo
<JAX> where would we all be without Ting and his lessons on FORTH disguised as 
<JAX> f83 tutorial
<J.SHIFRIN> I've nev osditor k+r.
<JAX> huh? jerry garbled
<J.SHIFRIN> Drat. Other than editor and assembler, I've never seen anyone use 
<J.SHIFRIN> vocabs.
<[Kevin] APPERT> he said he's nev osditor k+r.
<JAX> right that`s what i heard:-)
<J.SHIFRIN> [hahahahaha]
<JAX> your right jerry ..
<JAX> but, that`s the point. that`s what vocabs are for
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> really jerry?  I'll have to wip up an example
<JAX> also they have application in parser generation
<JAX> which is pretty big in some circles
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I use them a lot, but mostly for compiling.
<JAX> no one said you had to use them all the time
<J.SHIFRIN> You should be using the Forth parser. That makes others redundant.
<JAX> after all, your dick is precious, but you don't whip it out every 10 
<JAX> minutes
<JAX>
<[Kevin] APPERT> what about 'runoff' - type applications where you want to lock 
<[Kevin] APPERT> out anything but the formatting commands?
<JAX> forth parser ... do use it  love it
<JAX> use it to generate new parsers ..
<JAX> preach WORD to unix idiots
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I use the Forth parser with vocabularies
<JAX> they don't understand
<J.SHIFRIN> Applications should use headless code for non-user words.
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> but that takes another compile.
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I can ship my development environment
<[Kevin] APPERT> what about the new trend twords "packages" - where the 
<[Kevin] APPERT> internals are hidden from the outside?
<JAX> true, but real time systems demand inhouse user modification without 
<JAX> access to every idiot who can reach keyboard
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> give him a "password" to get in :-)
<JAX>
<JAX> right ... the vocabulary. there it is
<JDHALL> Sorry, I have to run,  Wife says that dinner cant wait!  bye till next 
<JDHALL> week.  oo
<JAX> aloha`
<JDHALL> has left.
<J.SHIFRIN> I'm takinot ot for sh;n open sVor fiel+s
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> well folks, it's after 11 here
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> you garbled again jerry
<J.SHIFRIN> That was garight?
<JAX> nope
<J.SHIFRIN> @#$%@%$#@%$#@%$#@!$^%
<[Kevin] APPERT> that's great,J. if you're writing lotus 123, or peachtree 
<[Kevin] APPERT> accounting, but Forth tends more twords things that have
<[Kevin] APPERT> to be screwed with interactively
<JAX> got that one ok
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> what you doing?
<[Kevin] APPERT> cursing GE, looks like
<J.SHIFRIN> Thanx. No problem here.
<JAX> good hobby
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> now now :-)
<J.SHIFRIN> Time to go...
<[Kevin] APPERT> shall we adjourn?
<JAX> I asked feedback what language GEnie is written in . guess
<J.SHIFRIN> Wait...I forgot how.
<J.SHIFRIN> Helpppp
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> how to do what Jerry
<[Kevin] APPERT> drizale
<[Kevin] APPERT> drazle
<J.SHIFRIN> Leave the conference.
<JAX> type slash-exit
<[Kevin] APPERT> drozzle
<J.SHIFRIN> Thanks.
<J.SHIFRIN> has left.
<[Kevin] APPERT> drone.  time for this one to come home
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> yes type /exit
<JAX> foozle
<JAX> nobody guessed
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> nope
<[Kevin] APPERT> guessed what?
<JAX> what language GEnie is written in
<[Kevin] APPERT> Fortran?
<JAX> damn you!
<JAX> got it the first time
<[Kevin] APPERT> already taken care of, thanks
<[Kevin] APPERT> (being damned that is)
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> I figured as much (about Fortran)
<JAX> see you guys next time ... FORTH onwards : bye-bye 2 0 do bye loop ;
<[Kevin] APPERT> 'night guys
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> good night all
<[Dennis] D.RUFFER> thanks for coming
<JAX> has left.
<[Kevin] APPERT> has left.
=== End of Steno notes. ===