Minutes of the FIGGY BAR RT Conference.
   
Date: 02/02/89   Time: 22:25EST
Attendees:
[[Gary] GARY-S]
[[Ken] K.BUTTERFIEL] and John Pratt
[[Jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS]
[[Kevin] APPERT]
    
Items discussed: National lab(s) management, C and Forth, Forth on VAX, Randy
                 Dumse conference 2/9/89,x3/j14 revisited,JFAR re-visited(?)
Minutes:
<[Ken] K.BUTTERFIEL> Hi Gary, I'm calling from Santa Barabara.
<[Ken] K.BUTTERFIEL> I have a guest, John Pratt.
<[Gary] GARY-S> Sorry I'm late Ken, the LR node was dead
<[Gary] GARY-S> Hey John , welcome
<[Ken] K.BUTTERFIEL> He is interested in seeing a real time conference in 
action.
<[Gary] GARY-S> so far we're it
<[Gary] GARY-S> Ken - did you get my ARPA e-mail re: Randy
<[Ken] K.BUTTERFIEL> Can we get as much action as last thursdy's vms discusion??
<[Gary] GARY-S> with just us :-) I doubt it
<[Ken] K.BUTTERFIEL> No, I haven't logged into home base this week.
<[Gary] GARY-S> Well - this is your reminder - next Thur is Dumse night
<[Ken] K.BUTTERFIEL> Yes, it is on the very top of my list.  In fact I told 
Randy when he was talking, he was unaware.
<[Ken] K.BUTTERFIEL> Santa Barabara has a cold spell this evening after a 
beautiful morning.
<[Ken] K.BUTTERFIEL> It is too cold to swim!
<[Gary] GARY-S> That's where you are !
<[Gary] GARY-S> I was trying to make the name ring a bell and connect it with 
Los Alamos
<[Ken] K.BUTTERFIEL> Univ. of Calf. runs Los Alamos and several other labs.
<[Gary] GARY-S> Sandia ?
<[Ken] K.BUTTERFIEL> We love to visit this one in particular.
<[Ken] K.BUTTERFIEL> Not Sandia, that is Bell labs!
<[Gary] GARY-S> Back - way back when I was with CDC I think we had one each of 
everything CDC made at Los Alamos
<[Ken] K.BUTTERFIEL> Lawrence Livermore, Lawerence Berkley, ect.
<[Ken] K.BUTTERFIEL> I remember all of the 6600, 7600 cyber series , now only 
one cyber left as a commo node!
<[Gary] GARY-S> I would sure love to get on with one of those - hauling trash 
if necessary
<[Ken] K.BUTTERFIEL> In fact the first Cray 1's are being removed to make room 
for faster machines
<[Gary] GARY-S> Staying with Cray ?
<[Ken] K.BUTTERFIEL> So far, but the computer div stays up with the world and 
look closely at the Japanese developments as well.
<[Gary] GARY-S> Seymore & company build a pretty good box - I'd hate to see the 
Japanese usurp us there
<[Ken] K.BUTTERFIEL> It was close on the last call as I understand it.
<[Ken] K.BUTTERFIEL> John tells me CDC lost money the last 2 quarters, mostly 
on super computers.
<[Gary] GARY-S> Especially if you're doing a lot of paralel distributed 
processing you need all the universe a computer can supply and then some
<[Ken] K.BUTTERFIEL> Where are all of the San Francisco folks tonight, the 
49ers have stopped playing.
<[Gary] GARY-S> I have no idea where anyone is - the storm may be killing us
<[Gary] GARY-S> I could access via Los Angeles node all the time, but not here 
in Little Rock
<[Ken] K.BUTTERFIEL> What is a regional node?  Is each a computer with a DDS?
<[Gary] GARY-S> Have you been following the
<[Ken] K.BUTTERFIEL> dds-- Digital data services
<FIGCHAPTERS> is here.
<[Gary] GARY-S> Everywhere GEISCO has business services there is DDS
<[Gary] GARY-S> That's why they use distributed access, not packet switching
<[Ken] K.BUTTERFIEL> Are the local nodes PDP 11 size machines, vaxes or what.
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> vaxen.
<[Gary] GARY-S> true
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> ( envy ... i would like to have *one* of them! )
<[Gary] GARY-S> Ken has a guest - John Pratt
<[Ken] K.BUTTERFIEL> They make nice foot warmers under your desk on cold days.
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> Hi Ken Hi John
<[Ken] K.BUTTERFIEL> John has bout 4 of the critters for our group at work.
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> Do they have Forth on them?
<[Gary] GARY-S> That is the sort of remark you might expect from someone who is 
up-grading from a dinky little Cray-1
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> poo - cray - je me'emmerde d'ennui .. :-)
<[Ken] K.BUTTERFIEL> I don't program computers I can't carry.  So I have not 
put FORTH on them.
<[Ken] K.BUTTERFIEL> Don't pin the c-div priorities on me!
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> Pick a FORTH up off the Net!
<[Gary] GARY-S> back to Randy - you must be one that talked to him about the 
conference
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> When are we going to start carrying hi-end Forths 
here on GEnie FIG RT, gars?
<[Gary] GARY-S> Upload one and it'll be the first, Jax
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> do we already have the fig VAXFORTH from ECFB?
<[Ken] K.BUTTERFIEL> Is there one for the VAX?  I know some versions exist, but 
FORTH,INC implementations rather then public domain.
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> There's lots, ken.
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> THere are at least three FIG FORTHs for the VAX in 
circulation.
<[Gary] GARY-S> Wait
<[Ken] K.BUTTERFIEL> Where? Where? from John and Ken
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> There is a CForth ( new ) and an old CFORTH ( ugh ).
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> The expert is Mitch Bradley. Are you VMSers or 
UNIXites?
<[Gary] GARY-S> as in John Pratt ?
<[Ken] K.BUTTERFIEL> Correct on John Pratt... We use VMS until DEC does away 
with it some time soon I suspect.
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> Well there should be a slightly unsatisfactory file 
called VAXFORTH in the
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> library here ...
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> since everything on ECFB except the logon screen ...
<[Gary] GARY-S> file # 134
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> has been lightfingered to our lib.
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> Otherwise ...
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> there are many more modern attempts ...
<[Ken] K.BUTTERFIEL> DEC is converging VMS toward UNIX through POSIX
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> floating around the USENET ...
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> and if you have a C Compiler and will work at it ...
<[Ken] K.BUTTERFIEL> What is USENET?
<[Kevin] APPERT> VMS is going down the tubes...
<[Gary] GARY-S> Well port the things here turkey !!!!
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> there is a nice CForth from Bradley, but don't 
think a full VMS version exists currently, could be wrong.
<[Ken] K.BUTTERFIEL> Hi Kevin.
<[Kevin] APPERT> it takes up 30% more of the computer than it used to
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> USENET is an international "BBS" of email for Unix.
<[Kevin] APPERT> more money for less computer
<[Kevin] APPERT> hi Ken
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> Hi Kev what's shaking aside from the ground where 
you are?
<[Gary] GARY-S> kev - welcome
<[Gary] GARY-S> you were asking ken - this is a BIG part of last weeks VMS 
discussion
<[Gary] GARY-S> Jax - answer please
<[Kevin] APPERT> I heard at one time (I think) that "forth in c" was ported to 
Vax ... don't know if that was Unix or VMS or both.
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> huh? what was cuestio'n, se~nor?
<[Gary] GARY-S> Why don't you port the kernels here ??>???
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> To Bradley's CForth?
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> Am I allowed to?
<[Gary] GARY-S> the PD kernels on UseNet
<[Ken] K.BUTTERFIEL> C and UNIX are the ususal pair,  VMS and FORTRAN are the 
corresponding pair
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> I guess so ... right, the $50 is for the docs, 
right?
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> There are these pointers floating around for 
anonymous ftp's ... WELL doesn't have ftp, not on internet.
<[Gary] GARY-S> Come to think of it - that's true but I would want to ask Mitch 
first
<[Ken] K.BUTTERFIEL> C does exist on VMS however.
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> Well, i have no doubt that if you contact Bradley
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> ( wmb@sun.com )
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> he will know what you need.
<[Gary] GARY-S> I'll just call him
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> Bradley ForthWare, box 4444 Mountain View CA 94040
<[Gary] GARY-S> I have his phone number(s)
<[Kevin] APPERT> I've always loved that box number :)
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> Think it's coincidence? :-)
<[Gary] GARY-S> The zip looks good too
<[Ken] K.BUTTERFIEL> It can't be!
<[Kevin] APPERT>  it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling
<[Ken] K.BUTTERFIEL> Zips are coincidence
<[Kevin] APPERT> somebody's brain musta kicked in for a min. down at the post 
office on the box#
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> you can request those things, specially if you know 
the Postmaster.
<[Gary] GARY-S> You can't have a brain and work there
<[Kevin] APPERT> Mitch didn't request it, he just got it!  largess, I guess
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> Hey, anybody got any suntan oil? It ran up all the 
way to 10 degrees F. today in Denver.
<[Gary] GARY-S> You don't like it that warm move to Billings or Juneau
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> It's colder than Ronnie's frontal lobe out there!
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> Juneau ... 60 below ... it's even to cold for FORTH 
there .
<[Ken] K.BUTTERFIEL> back and forth
<[Gary] GARY-S> get your JFAR ?
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> WHAT????????????????????????????????????????????????
??????????????
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> Are they out?
<[Gary] GARY-S> no - just asking
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> I went back and read the conf.
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> He said they were going to be at the printers' 
before Xmas.
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> I think we has been fibbed at again.
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> Which is what i said all along and everybody said i 
was too critical.
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> Of course, ....
<[Kevin] APPERT> Forth is at South Pole station, there is nothing to cold for 
Forth!!! :)
<[Ken] K.BUTTERFIEL> JFAR is the Rochester conf. proc.???
<[Gary] GARY-S> I think this should be taken up at some serious level - like 
the upomming FIG board meeting
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> maybe Forseley is Orthodox, in which case Xmas is 
in January ...
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> I came to his conference ( you got that about right,
 Ken, it's sopposed to be other things, too, a regualar scholarly jour
nal of FORTH ) ...
<[Ken] K.BUTTERFIEL> Thanks
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> and denied that they had been saying "at the 
printers" for months.
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> You shouldn't get me started like that, Gary!
<[Gary] GARY-S> I'm wasting an hour of my PCP time tonight
<[Kevin] APPERT> you shouldn't take that stuff.
<[Kevin] APPERT> PCP?
<[Gary] GARY-S> not Angel dust - PCPursuit, you ninny
<[Kevin] APPERT> on CB?
<[Kevin] APPERT> what's PCPursuit?
<[Gary] GARY-S> Telenet disguised as Jesse James
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> the answer to your question on RCFB ...
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> is "Ask Erik Fair ... he's one of the net.gods ... 
mail fair(@well).
<[Gary] GARY-S> is this in ref to my Usenet BBS question ?
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> Right.
<[Gary] GARY-S> gotcha
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> Usenet is governed by the net.gods
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> Erik Fair, fair@well , is one of the net.gods .
<[Gary] GARY-S> Kev - PCP is a service offered by Telenet that lets you access 
several big...
<[Kevin] APPERT> Chuck M. was at the silicon valley monthly meeting.  He 
basicly said the standarrd sucks.
<[Kevin] APPERT> (the ansi standard as it now stands)
<[Gary] GARY-S> cities for 25.00 now $30.00/month and then log-on to the BBS's 
in that city
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> I tend to agree with chuck-san
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> the vendors have locked themselves in a closet.
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> but chuck would say it no matter what, i suspect.
<[Gary] GARY-S> Chuck has ALWAYS been anti-standard..
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> Right, nonstandard is standard with him :-)
<[Kevin] APPERT> I agree also.
<[Gary] GARY-S> his quote is 'if I had followed standards there would be no 
Forth."
<[Kevin] APPERT> but Chuck is not ANTI, he is just NON!
<[Gary] GARY-S> I'll accept that
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> The grizzled old pioneer geticulates widely before 
the incredulous young schoolchildren.
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> did weinstein drop by tonight?
<[Gary] GARY-S> The argument depends on your audience
<[Gary] GARY-S> no he did NOT
<[Kevin] APPERT> 1's complement arithmitic, though?  thats a bit much.
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> He was by two weeks ago.
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> he was wrestling with MSDOS.
<[Gary] GARY-S> last week, too
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> ( or was that last week on SUnday )
<[Gary] GARY-S> he started the VMS discussion last week and it was a dandy 
conference
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> <<< was ill and missed it.
<[Kevin] APPERT> we are going to get a language designed by comm-itty
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> gotta go!
<[jax is back] FIGCHAPTERS> gnite all.
<[Gary] GARY-S> might as well kill it kev
<[Kevin] APPERT> and if we have to use a language...
<[Kevin] APPERT> designed by comm-itty...
<[Kevin] APPERT> we might as well use ADA.  At least there's some money in it!
<[Kevin] APPERT> 'night
<[Kevin] APPERT> has left.
<[Gary] GARY-S> or PL/1
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