X3J14/89-016 Draft Minutes, X3J14 Meeting #10, October 25-28, 1989 Doc. no: X3J14/89-016 November 9, 1989 Minutes of X3J14 Meeting #10 ANS Forth Technical Committee October 25-28, 1989, Greenbelt, Maryland CALL TO ORDER Bob Davis (NSWC) and Xan Gregg (CSI) were introduced. Mr. Gregg will be CSI's alternate. Mr. Bradley, Mr. Berkey and Mr. Brown are now voting members. 18 voting members were present. The attendance list is document 89-017. The unamended minutes of Meeting 9 were approved unanimously. ACTION ITEM REVIEW FROM MEETING #9 Not many members filled out George's survey. The minutes of Meeting 9 were posted on GENIE. The location for Meeting 10 was selected. Many burning issue write-ups were received and included in the minutes. Many people have attended one meeting and follow us by being included on the mailing list. This informs them of the issues before being voted on. OLD BUSINESS The new corrected proposal log has been distributed. It was suggested that it would be easier to read with change bars. Mr. Shaw spoke to EuroFORML about ANS Forth. The Europeans are interested but feel they are missing information. They need to know how to join ANS X3J14 and how to participate. Many would like to be observers. He suggested that we include Forth, Inc.'s FAX number in the BASIS. Mr. Shaw explained the "Fast track" method, and they liked it. We received a communique from Boston FIG via Gary Chanson. They are pleased that we are interested in their input. Mr. Forsley discussed including Chuck Moore's unofficial appendix when he reprints the minutes from a former ANS X3J14 meeting in JFAR. It was agreed that for someone not following his comments with the then- current BASIS that level of detail was unhelpful. His remarks are well summarized in the minutes. LOGISTICS COMMITTEE REPORT Mr. Brown volunteered to host the summer 1990 meeting in Canada. The Chair will check this with CBEMA. There was much discussion about holding a meeting in Boulder, Colorado. Mr. Keene (by phone) strenuously objected to Boulder being the site of an East Coast meeting. A motion to exclude Boulder failed for lack of a second. A motion to remove our resolution about alternating meetings between coasts also failed for lack of a second. Mr. Forsley moved that we consider mid-West sites for some remaining meetings. This motion passed. 1990 Schedule of meetings: Jan 24-27 San Diego, CA Mr. Kelly, host May 22-26 Melbourne, FL Mr. Hand (Harris) host Aug 21-25 Vancouver, BC Mr. Brown, host Nov 7-10 Washington, DC Host to be determined DOCUMENTATION COMMITTEE REPORT BASIS 9 was adopted 15/0. The Chair reminded us that typos can be reported directly to Mr. Dickens; all other changes require proposals to correct. There was considerable interest in continuing the concordance. There was a problem in producing the last concordance, but it has now been corrected. RESEARCH COMMITTEE REPORT Mr. Nemeth submitted results of a survey conducted by Mr. Shaw. TECHNICAL COMMITTEE REPORT Mr. Bailey reported that we had 150 actionable proposals not subject to the two-week rule. He found seven discrepancies with the proposal log, which are reflected below in Action on Technical Proposals. TSC apologizes for submitting TP-215 and TP-238 to the TC, which were actually tabled in the TSC. Both failed in the TC. INTERNATIONAL COMMITTEE REPORT Mr. Dorband cannot get NASA sponsorship. The Chair will approach Mr. Shaw to be the International Representative. SMC actually does the election. OTHER BUSINESS Mr. Keene appointed Mr. Nemeth to be his alternate at this meeting. Mr. Duncan appointed Mr. Tracy to be his. The alternates were approved 15/0. The Chair agreed to further research rules concerning appointment of alternates. Mr. Shaw was not in attendance, but sent a list of votes on pending proposals. In response to Mr. Kelly's comment regarding the MOSI standard, the Chair appointed a working group consisting of Mr. Braithwaite (chair), Mr. Kobziar and Mr. Egbert to study this, and establish liason with the sponsoring IEEE committee. The Chair noted that a Mr. Kompass, a writer for Control Engineering Magazine, would like to do a story on large Forth projects. Members are urged to contact him information on successful large projects (more than 4-5 people): Edward J. Kompass Control Engineering 802 453-2963 The Chair further noted that Prentice-Hall has discontinued Thinking Forth. Members who are concerned about this are encouraged to contact the Chair or Prentice Hall. Mr. Hayes has written his first ANS Forth column for Forth Dimensions. The overdue mailing account is now $2000. Members are urged to contribute their share if they haven't already. ACTION ON TECHNICAL PROPOSALS TP# Name Status Action TP-4a Restore the original ... NOT passed 16/2 TP-67 Local variables withdrawn TP-101 Multiple WHILE+s failed 1/12 TP-107 Restoring the contents of SPAN failed 0/17 ER letter TP-116 Control Structure withdrawn TP-166 File access word names tabled TP-171 The right to assemble failed 1/15 TP-177 Immediate loop indices failed 1/14 TP-189 Local variables withdrawn TP-194c Making PAD consistent failed TP-209 Current block buffer passed 18/0 AK letter TP-210 Global and locals postponed TP-224(a) SCAN> TSC TP-224(b)a SCAN passed TP-239 Deferred compilation withdrawn TP-249 Named local variables withdrawn TP-260 Findability after CODE passed 15/0 TP-263 The right to compile failed 0/17 TP-285a VALUE passed 15/0 TP-301 Fix VOCABULARY withdrawn TP-332a Remove CONVERT Exception passed 17/0 TP-347 Omnibus T post proposal TP-348a Omnibus W passed 17/0 TP-349 Omnibus X1 failed 0/18 TP-350 Omnibus X2 failed 0/18 TP-355 Other wrap-around words failed 0/18 TP-356 Wrap-around arithmetic failed 0/18 TP-357 Circular DO and ?DO Parameters failed 0/17 TP-358 Wrap-around numbers failed 0/17 TP-359 The number circle failed 0/17 TP-360 Omnibus R failed 0/17 TP-361 AX Non-functional Division failed 0/18 TP-362 Omnibus K failed 0/18 TP-363 New definitions of ... word failed 0/17 TP-366a Post proposals passed 15/0 TP-371a Drop +colon definition+ term passed 18/0 TP-372a Environmental Dependencies passed 18/0 TP-375 Add capability to files I failed 1/16 TP-376 Add capability to files II failed 1/16 TP-377 Add capability to files III failed 1/16 TP-378 Add capability to files IV failed 1/16 TP-379 Add capability to files V failed 1/16 TP-380 Add capability to files VI failed 1/16 TP-381 Add capability to files VII failed 1/16 TP-383 File word set failed 0/17 MB letter TP-385a Environmental word set passed 14/4 TP-399a Portability guide passed 17/0 TP-400 CELL- failed 4/14 TP-402a Clarify IO-RESULT passed 17/0 TP-403a File access methods passed 15/2 TP-404a File position maintainance passed 17/1 TP-412 NON failed 1/17 TP-413 Definition of file failed 1/16 MT letter TP-414 Clarification of , and C, failed 1/17 MT letter TP-417 Clarify EVALUATE failed 1/17 TD letter TP-418 Names for file operators failed 2/15 LC letter TP-419a Delete IO-RESULT passed 18/0 LC letter TP-420a Clarification of file access passed 16/1 MT letter TP-421a Revise the definition of "line" passed 17/0 MT letter TP-422 Delete "file mode" passed 17/1 MT letter TP-423 Definition of flow of execution failed 1/16 MT letter TP-430.ca NIP in future directions failed 3/14 TP-434 System Word Set withdrawn TP-437 /MOD failed 0/19 TP-438 2's Complement failed 3/16 TP-453 Memory allocation tabled TP-458 Definition of colon withdrawn TP-460 Display definition passed 17/0 TP-461a FP Stack definition passed 17/0 TP-464 >IN withdrawn TP-466 Word naming conventions withdrawn TP-467 Capitalization issues withdrawn TP# Name Status Action TP-470 */MOD post proposal TP-473 2R@ withdrawn TP-474 Current Block Buffer Definition withdrawn TP-477 Branch specification definition withdrawn TP-486 Equivalent execution withdrawn TP-502a Correct [CHAR] passed 17/1 TP-503 Remove I for Immediate passed 17/1 TP-504a ( .( [ passed 18/0 TP-505a POSTPONE passed 18/0 TP-506 Remove BYTE+ and BYTES failed 1/17 TP-507a SKIP> passed 15/3 TP-508 Tutorial passed 17/0 TP-509 Trig rationales post proposal TP-510 Appendix X MOSI COMMENT TP-511 Division with true modulus failed 0/19 BB letter TP-512a Local Variables Again passed 14/4 TP-514 Remove impossible requirements passed 18/0 TP-518a @EXECUTE passed 17/0 TP-519a CONTEXT and CURRENT... passed 17/0 TP-520 LOOP, not LOOP THEN passed 14/4 TP-521 Post proposals post proposal TP-523a Change DIGITIZE to >NUMBER passed 16/1 TP-524 Comments on +Tutorial+ draft COMMENT TP-525 Reinstate COMPILE and [COMPILE] failed 1/16 LC letter TP-530 Make REPEAT obsolete failed 1/15 TP-531a Grab bag passed 17/0 TP-532 Add 2R@ failed 5/12 TP-534 Unlink control structures... passed 17/0 TP-535 Blocks never get block numbers passed 17/0 TP-536 Specify string compare byte order passed 17/0 TP-537a Adjust tutorial to reflect... passed 15/0 TP-538 Replace ?KEY with KEY? failed 2/15 TP-546a Colon is not a compiling word passed 17/0 TP-552a >IN addresses bytes passed 16/1 TP-553a Equality passed 17/0 TP-554 Block word set is an option failed 3/15 We resolve that two new words will be made available: SM/MOD and FM/MOD. The divisor of words which return a remainder, i.e., /MOD */MOD MOD, will be rewritten so that they can be based on any of these words including UM/MOD. The division words that take a signed divisor will allow SM/MOD or FM/MOD as their base. Mr. Berkey will implement this resolution with proposals at the next meeting. Resolution passed 16/1. ACTION ITEMS 1. The Chair will check out a summer 1990 meeting in Canada with CBEMA. 2. The documentation committee will get BASIS to Mr. Bailey to produce a concordance. 3. Mr. Tracy will bring past minutes to future meetings. 4. The Chair will ask Mr. Shaw to be our International Representative. 5. Mr. Braithwaite will draft a cover letter to send with copies of the MOSI proposal to major vendors. Mr. Braithwaite will call Mr. Kelly and ask him strongly not to send his letter in until the working group is done. They will also notify IEEE that we are working on it. 6. All TC members should implement TP-512 as they see fit and report on results. 7. The Chair will research and clarify the policy on designating alternates and written votes. 8. The documentation committee will add former TC members to the list in BASIS. BURNING ISSUES The following is the list of issues identified by members that prevents adoption of BASIS as a dpANS, in descending order of urgency. Count Issue Magnet 11 Division 11 Inconsistencies of definitions 9 Missing Appendices 9 FP input and output 6 Action of : on CURRENT and CONTEXT 5 File input stream MB 5 Structure of BASIS TD 5 Environmental Interrogation 5 Character set MN 4 Byte char issues SE 4 Data space AK 4 Compilation LC 3 Memory allocation MB 3 What KEY returns 3 Block compromise JB 3 Error handling 2 1's complement usage rules 2 Floating point formats 1 Multitasking 1 HOST OS interface and MOSI Missing Appendices: Name Magnet Rationale RB Forth-83 compatibility RB Forth-79 compatibility LF Guidelines for Implementors MT Burning Issue Definitions: Data Space: Review Basis for precise and consistent definitions of memory which is addressable by a standard program, and for relationships, such as between HERE and PAD that are constraints for a system implementor. There are a number of proposals to clear up this issue. (AK) Multitasking and Host Operating System Interface: What is our position on the MOSI standard and to what degree do we want to standardize common OS functions? The standard now contains a very incomplete set, and a committee has been assigned to provide recommendations at the next meeting. (AK) NEXT MEETING The next meeting is January 24-27, 1990, at the UC San Diego campus in San Diego, California. Mr. Kelly will be the host, and Dr. Wavrick will be the faculty sponsor. Accommodations will be off-campus. ADJOURNMENT The tenth meeting of the X3J14 ANS Forth Technical Committee was adjourned at 6:00 P.M. on Saturday, October 28, 1989. Submitted by: Martin J. Tracy, Secretary.