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Subject: talking swords
Message-ID: <1995May30.154957.13307@netnews.wku.edu>
From: bowling@pulsar.wku.edu (Garrett Bowling)
Date: 30 May 95 15:49:55 CDT
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i have some questions:

if a sword can talk, then i assume that it can also hear.  can the sword 
also see things? for example my character had a sword that could detect 
magic -- the DM assumed that the sword imbued the wielder with the 
ability to see the magical objects -- or does the sword see the objects?  

could the owner of the sword have the sword keep watch and start yelling 
when something gets near?

does a person have to be holding the sword to command it to do things?  
(for example the above sword could also levitate as per the spell, if the 
sword were dropped could my player still tell the sword to levitate an 
object?)

will evil swords always follow their masters?



thanks, more questions to follow,

garrett


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From: lrmead@whale.st.usm.edu (Lawrence R. Mead)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: talking swords
Date: 2 Jun 1995 12:44:32 GMT
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Garrett Bowling (bowling@pulsar.wku.edu) wrote:
: i have some questions:

: if a sword can talk, then i assume that it can also hear.  can the sword 
: also see things? for example my character had a sword that could detect 
: magic -- the DM assumed that the sword imbued the wielder with the 
: ability to see the magical objects -- or does the sword see the objects?  

A sentient sword communicates via telepathic link to its owner (see DMG).
It may express itself only that way and only when held (drawn).

: could the owner of the sword have the sword keep watch and start yelling 
: when something gets near?

If held while asleep, the sword could wake you. Might be hard to achieve.

: does a person have to be holding the sword to command it to do things?  
: (for example the above sword could also levitate as per the spell, if the 
: sword were dropped could my player still tell the sword to levitate an 
: object?)

No, the sword can take no action on its own is the "standard" interpretation.
One might rule that a sword power *once activated by the owner* may continue
even if the sword is dropped. Some rule that if the sword IQ is high (above
average) the sword may act on its own.

: will evil swords always follow their masters?



: thanks, more questions to follow,

: garrett

DMGorgon
--

Lawrence R. Mead (lrmead@whale.st.usm.edu) | ESCHEW OBFUSCATION !
Associate Professor of Physics             | ESPOUSE ELUCIDATION !



Article: 80831 of rec.games.frp.dnd
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From: jjan@cs.rug.nl (Beeblebrox)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: talking swords
Date: 2 Jun 1995 12:38:35 GMT
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Larry Smith wrote:
<snip SNIP snip>
< Look. One Sig!
<
< The Livewire
< morris.113@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu
<
< "And Remember Your Highness; The Sun never sets
< on the British Empire because God doesn't trust
< the British in the Dark" -Sliders

Congratulations Livewire!! ;-0)
-- 
Jan Jongejan                            email: jjan@cs.rug.nl
Dept. Comp.Sci.,
Univ. of Groningen,                     8-{)
Netherlands.




Article: 80933 of rec.games.frp.dnd
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From: oly4@willamette.edu (OLY Account 4)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: talking swords
Date: 1 Jun 1995 07:57:44 -0700
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In article <1995May30.154957.13307@netnews.wku.edu>,
Garrett Bowling <bowling@pulsar.wku.edu> wrote:
>i have some questions:
>
>if a sword can talk, then i assume that it can also hear.  can the sword 
>also see things? for example my character had a sword that could detect 
>magic -- the DM assumed that the sword imbued the wielder with the 
>ability to see the magical objects -- or does the sword see the objects?  
>
>could the owner of the sword have the sword keep watch and start yelling 
>when something gets near?
>
>does a person have to be holding the sword to command it to do things?  
>(for example the above sword could also levitate as per the spell, if the 
>sword were dropped could my player still tell the sword to levitate an 
>object?)
>
>will evil swords always follow their masters?
>
>
>
>thanks, more questions to follow,
>
>garrett


An intelligent sword has no senses or wisdom of its own.  It can tap into 
its holder's sight and hearing when held unsheathed.  This is also the 
only time its powers may be used.  How exactly its powers function is at 
the DM's discretion, but the sword *cannot* take any action on its own.

						Demon Sultan of Khaipur
						Brett Altschul


Article: 80944 of rec.games.frp.dnd
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From: berg@eskimo.com (Berg)
Subject: Re: talking swords
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OLY Account 4 (oly4@willamette.edu) wrote:


: An intelligent sword has no senses or wisdom of its own.  It can tap into 
: its holder's sight and hearing when held unsheathed.  This is also the 
: only time its powers may be used.  How exactly its powers function is at 
: the DM's discretion, but the sword *cannot* take any action on its own.


	What if the sword is a sword of dancing?  If it has no senses, 
and isn't held by it's owner, how can it possibly have a chance of 
hitting anything?



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From: thompson@space.honeywell.com (jt -- John Thompson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: talking swords
Date: 2 Jun 1995 18:11:09 GMT
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The Livewire (morris.113@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu) wrote:
: Kipper wrote:
: >In article <1995May30.154957.13307@netnews.wku.edu>,

: >An intelligent sword has no senses or wisdom of its own.  It can tap into 
: >its holder's sight and hearing when held unsheathed.  This is also the 
: >only time its powers may be used.  How exactly its powers function is at 
: >the DM's discretion, but the sword *cannot* take any action on its own.
: >
: >						Demon Sultan of Khaipur
: >						Brett Altschul
: This makes no sense to me.  Is there an official ruling?  Looking at 
: TSR books Godsbane certainly could do things on her own, but then she 
: was an avatar.  Better example in Mercedes Lackey's Oaths Duology and 
: the Magewinds.  Need was an intelligent sword but was "asleep" there-
: fore her basic powers (fighting ability and magic resistance) were 
: unhindered, when she "woke" she had all of the abilities above, plus 
: those of a journeyman mage (ouch!) but she could control those.


Agreed.  Personally, I don't care if there is an "official" ruling.  My
world is not subject to petty decisions made by anyone but me.

However, in a less arbitrary bent, I'd consider how the sword was made,
and how the special abilities were added.

If a sword is intelligent because some god put a minion, elemental, or
other follower's soul into the weapon, then I'd say that the sword has the
int and wisdom of the inserted being.  Sight and hearing would depend a
lot on how it was done;  are there gems that act as eyes?

If a mage uses some sort of non-possession spell to create an intelligence
and put it in/on the sword, then I would tend to agree that the sword has
no wisdom per se.  Also, it would be likely (though not required) that the
sight and hearing came from being wielded.

Whether a sword's powers are present while sheathed ought (imho) to also
depend on how it was made, and how the sheath was made.  It might be true
that the powers are muted only when sheathed in one particular (and magical)
sheath.

: Both Heartseeker and Sun and Steel (two blades in my campaign) were 
: intelligent and able to use their own powers, they also "forgot" to 
: tell their weilders about some of these powers.

An old character of mine got a powerful, _willful_, and incredibly
_STUPID_ sword.  It had a tiny tiny int, but had a name, and was proud
of the fact that it had a name.  Even sheathed, it would occasionally
cry out
                 _MY_ _NAME_ _IS_ _LARRY_
in a loud, echoing voice.  Normally, this happened while we were trying
to sneak past something.  <sigh>

--
-- jt --
John Thompson
Senior Design Automation Engineer / Sys-Admin On The Loose
Honeywell, SSEC
Plymouth, MN  55441
thompson@ssec.honeywell.com      ...regardless of what News may say

*************************************************************************
* My time, my lines.                                                    *
* Honeywell knows better than to have **ME** represent **THEM**         *
*************************************************************************


Article: 80998 of rec.games.frp.dnd
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From: morris.113@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (The Livewire)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: talking swords
Date: 1 Jun 1995 12:38:26 -0400
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Kipper wrote:
>In article <1995May30.154957.13307@netnews.wku.edu>,

>An intelligent sword has no senses or wisdom of its own.  It can tap into 
>its holder's sight and hearing when held unsheathed.  This is also the 
>only time its powers may be used.  How exactly its powers function is at 
>the DM's discretion, but the sword *cannot* take any action on its own.
>
>						Demon Sultan of Khaipur
>						Brett Altschul
This makes no sense to me.  Is there an official ruling?  Looking at TSR books Godsbane certainly 
could do things on her own, but then she was an avatar.  Better example in Mercedes Lackey's Oaths
Duology and the Magewinds.  Need was an intelligent sword but was "asleep" there fore her basic 
powers (fighting ability and magic resistance) were unhindered, when she "woke" she had all of the 
abilities above, plus those of a journeyman mage (ouch!) but she could control those.

Both Heartseeker and Sun and Steel (two blades in my campaign) were intelligent and able to use 
their own powers, they also "forgot" to tell their weilders about some of these powers.
(NE and CG blades)

Look. One Sig!

The Livewire
morris.113@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu

"And Remember Your Highness; The Sun never sets
on the British Empire because God doesn't trust
the British in the Dark" -Sliders


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From: oly4@willamette.edu (OLY Account 4)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: talking swords
Date: 2 Jun 1995 12:38:18 -0700
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In article <D9K15v.ID3@eskimo.com>, Berg <berg@eskimo.com> wrote:
>OLY Account 4 (oly4@willamette.edu) wrote:
>
>
>: An intelligent sword has no senses or wisdom of its own.  It can tap into 
>: its holder's sight and hearing when held unsheathed.  This is also the 
>: only time its powers may be used.  How exactly its powers function is at 
>: the DM's discretion, but the sword *cannot* take any action on its own.
>
>
>	What if the sword is a sword of dancing?  If it has no senses, 
>and isn't held by it's owner, how can it possibly have a chance of 
>hitting anything?
>
This isn't about a sword of dancing; it's about *intelligent* swords.  
The nature of the abilities of the two is utterly different.  One has a 
magical intelligence; the other has limited flight ability and some 
manner of detecting the world around it.  Now, an intelligent sword of 
dancing can be very interesting and difficult to DM.

						Demon Sultan of Khaipur
						Brett Altschul


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From: oly4@willamette.edu (OLY Account 4)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: talking swords
Date: 1 Jun 1995 10:43:47 -0700
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In article <199506011636.MAA15878@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu>,
The Livewire <morris.113@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>Kipper wrote:
>>In article <1995May30.154957.13307@netnews.wku.edu>,
>
>>An intelligent sword has no senses or wisdom of its own.  It can tap into 
>>its holder's sight and hearing when held unsheathed.  This is also the 
>>only time its powers may be used.  How exactly its powers function is at 
>>the DM's discretion, but the sword *cannot* take any action on its own.
>>
>>						Demon Sultan of Khaipur
>>						Brett Altschul
>This makes no sense to me.  Is there an official ruling?  Looking at TSR books Godsbane certainly 

This is old official, but I usually keep up enough to note any major changes.

>could do things on her own, but then she was an avatar.  Better example in Mercedes Lackey's Oaths
>Duology and the Magewinds.  Need was an intelligent sword but was "asleep" there fore her basic 
>powers (fighting ability and magic resistance) were unhindered, when she "woke" she had all of the 
>abilities above, plus those of a journeyman mage (ouch!) but she could control those.


>
>Both Heartseeker and Sun and Steel (two blades in my campaign) were intelligent and able to use 
>their own powers, they also "forgot" to tell their weilders about some of these powers.
>(NE and CG blades)

That's your call.  I don't always *play* by the official rules, and I've 
actually had some very bizarre intelligient swords.  (What happens when 
an alignment-changing magic item is used on a sword?  I had that happen 
once.)

>
>Look. One Sig!

Much better.

>
>The Livewire
>morris.113@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu
>
>"And Remember Your Highness; The Sun never sets
>on the British Empire because God doesn't trust
>the British in the Dark" -Sliders

						Demon Sultan of Khaipur
						Brett Altschul


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From: Allan=Floyd%Desktop%PCMkt=Hou@bangate.compaq.com
Subject: Re: Re: talking swords
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>Garrett Bowling (bowling@pulsar.wku.edu) wrote:
>: does a person have to be holding the sword to command it to do things?  
>: (for example the above sword could also levitate as per the spell, if the 
>: sword were dropped could my player still tell the sword to levitate an 
>: object?)
>
>No, the sword can take no action on its own is the "standard" interpretation.
>One might rule that a sword power *once activated by the owner* may continue
>even if the sword is dropped. Some rule that if the sword IQ is high (above
>average) the sword may act on its own.

 IMHO, this is very clear-cut.  If a sword has no intelligence of its own,
how could it dominate its wielder (with a high EGO, and an aligned sword,
this happens from time to time)?


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From: oly4@willamette.edu (OLY Account 4)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Re: talking swords
Date: 2 Jun 1995 15:09:39 -0700
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In article <80212166634n12@131.168.114.12>,
 <Allan=Floyd%Desktop%PCMkt=Hou@bangate.compaq.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Garrett Bowling (bowling@pulsar.wku.edu) wrote:
>>: does a person have to be holding the sword to command it to do things?  
>>: (for example the above sword could also levitate as per the spell, if the 
>>: sword were dropped could my player still tell the sword to levitate an 
>>: object?)
>>
>>No, the sword can take no action on its own is the "standard" interpretation.
>>One might rule that a sword power *once activated by the owner* may continue
>>even if the sword is dropped. Some rule that if the sword IQ is high (above
>>average) the sword may act on its own.
>
> IMHO, this is very clear-cut.  If a sword has no intelligence of its own,
>how could it dominate its wielder (with a high EGO, and an aligned sword,
>this happens from time to time)?

Of course an intelligent sword has intelligence.  To dominate somebody, 
that somebody needs to wield the blade, though.  What a sword lacks are 
senses and judgement (i.e. wisdom).

						Demon Sultan of Khaipur
						Brett Altschul


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Subject: Re: talking swords
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OLY Account 4 (oly4@willamette.edu) wrote:
: An intelligent sword has no senses or wisdom of its own.  It can tap into 
: its holder's sight and hearing when held unsheathed.  This is also the 

This reminds me of a magic item I read about - a magical glass
scabbard, which allowed you to use the speical powers of your
sword without having to hold it drawn (handy when you've just met
some people and want to check if they are evil without waving a sword
in their face).  The scabbards, being partly made of actual glass, were
rather fragile.

--
Sean K Reynolds    a.k.a. "Veggie Boy"    skreyn@aol.com    skreyn@netcom.com
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, so as to be purchased at the price of 
 chains and slavery?  Forbid it, alimighty god!  I know not what course others 
 may take, but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" - Patrick Henry


Article: 81236 of rec.games.frp.dnd
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From: sisolak@trans4.neep.wisc.edu (Jim Sisolak)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: talking swords
Date: 03 Jun 1995 04:32:45 GMT
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"OA4" == OLY Account 4 <oly4@willamette.edu> writes:

  OA4> An intelligent sword has no senses or wisdom of its own.  It can tap into 
  OA4> its holder's sight and hearing when held unsheathed.  This is also the 
  OA4> only time its powers may be used.  How exactly its powers function is at 
  OA4> the DM's discretion, but the sword *cannot* take any action on its own.

Sez you.  Every intelligent sword (item) I ever put in a game could
activate any of its powers at will with or without consent of the wielder -
or without any wielder.  If they can speak they can either hear or are
telepathic, and most of them have the power to sense living beings (at
least of the same race as its creator) and other intelligent magic items
within, say 50'.  Some of them could see and some even had infravision or
other senses vastly superior to those of the PCs.  

The very powerful crystal "Knock-Staff" I once threw in comes to mind, it's
primary power being Knock, as the spell on all portals, secret or
otherwise, within 30' radius.  It knew more about the doors and exits in a
room the the party ever did, and it used to selectively point out and Knock
doors it wanted the party to go through (conveniently forgetting to mention
others).

In any event your statement about a sword not taking action of its own
directly contradicts all that ego business describing when and how a sword
can "take over" its wielder and force him to do things.  This sounds like
an independent action to me - by choice of the sword.
--
Jim Sisolak                          | University of Wisconsin - Madison    
http://trans4.neep.wisc.edu/~sisolak | Department of Nuclear Engineering


Article: 81237 of rec.games.frp.dnd
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From: sisolak@trans4.neep.wisc.edu (Jim Sisolak)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: talking swords
Date: 03 Jun 1995 04:33:50 GMT
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"OA4" == OLY Account 4 <oly4@willamette.edu> writes:

  OA4> manner of detecting the world around it.  Now, an intelligent sword of 
  OA4> dancing can be very interesting and difficult to DM.

No, they're quite fun for players and DM, actually.
--
Jim Sisolak                          | University of Wisconsin - Madison    
http://trans4.neep.wisc.edu/~sisolak | Department of Nuclear Engineering


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From: rhumphre@silicon.csci.csusb.edu (Richard L. Humphreys)
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Subject: Re: talking swords
Date: 5 Jun 1995 21:27:47 GMT
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Garrett Bowling (bowling@pulsar.wku.edu) wrote:
: i have some questions:

: if a sword can talk, then i assume that it can also hear.  can the sword 
: also see things? for example my character had a sword that could detect 
: magic -- the DM assumed that the sword imbued the wielder with the 
: ability to see the magical objects -- or does the sword see the objects?  

: could the owner of the sword have the sword keep watch and start yelling 
: when something gets near?

: does a person have to be holding the sword to command it to do things?  
: (for example the above sword could also levitate as per the spell, if the 
: sword were dropped could my player still tell the sword to levitate an 
: object?)

: will evil swords always follow their masters?



: thanks, more questions to follow,

: garrett


Danilo Thann's singing sword in Elfsong comes to mind.
Elatith Craulnober: "Only you could wield such a ridiculous weapon!"

Depends on what you mean by talk. Is the sword intelligent, or does
it just work give advice on the best way to keep it clean? And intelligent
sword that couldn't hear anything might go crazy and start talking to itself,
giving you away if you're a thief getting ready to backstab.

RAT

--
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I have stood here before inside the pouring rain...
						-Sting

They've got us outnumbered. The poor bastards!
						-Anonymous Wemic
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