Article: 15102 of rec.games.frp.dnd Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Path: email!news.univie.ac.at!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!aio!casivils From: casivils@lescsse.jsc.nasa.gov (craig sivils) Subject: another rules question Message-ID: Sender: usenet@aio.jsc.nasa.gov (USENET News Client) Organization: Lockheed Engineering and Sciences Date: 1 Jun 93 03:52:56 GMT Lines: 30 A while back I asked for the groups opinion on using the combination of levitate and unseen servant in an attempt to mimic the fly spell. The majority of the group seemed to think that it was a workable alternative with some obvious drawbacks. Then I got to thinking again...... What about using feather fall and unseen servant? The obvious drawback would be that feather fall lasts a matter of rounds rather than turns and that any type of wind would complicate the situation, but in an optimum environment, lets say a giant underground cavern, the feather fall spell states that the target "immediately assumes the mass of a piece of down". That is way within the limits of the unseen servant spell. I assume it could also imitate a levitate spell? I am playing a bard/cleric who would like to be able to pass herself off as different classes. One of the possible charades she might try would be a single class mage of higher levels. Being able to trade two first level spells to imitate a 3rd level mage spell (even if very briefly) would be an excelent trade for her. So, whatcha think, possible or not possible. and while we're on the subject how would feather fall affect the climb walls skill? Craig Article: 15114 of rec.games.frp.dnd Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Path: email!mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at!alex From: alex@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Alexander Forst) Subject: Re: another rules question Message-ID: <1993Jun1.140242.27617@email.tuwien.ac.at> Keywords: magic spell, spell combination Sender: news@email.tuwien.ac.at Nntp-Posting-Host: mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at Organization: Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Universitaet Wien References: Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1993 14:02:42 GMT Lines: 59 In article , casivils@lescsse.jsc.nasa.gov (craig sivils) writes: |> A while back I asked for the groups opinion on using the combination of |> levitate and unseen servant in an attempt to mimic the fly spell. The majority |> of the group seemed to think that it was a workable alternative with some |> obvious drawbacks. |> |> Then I got to thinking again...... Oh no, not again... :-) |> What about using feather fall and unseen servant? |> |> The obvious drawback would be that feather fall lasts a matter of rounds rather |> than turns and that any type of wind would complicate the situation, but in |> an optimum environment, lets say a giant underground cavern, the feather fall |> spell states that the target "immediately assumes the mass of a piece of down". |> That is way within the limits of the unseen servant spell. |> |> I assume it could also imitate a levitate spell? I don't have the PHB with me (-> "immediately assumes the mass of a piece of down") but the velocity of your fall does _not_ depend on your mass but on the resistance in the surrounding media (e.g. air). so we have: mass of a piece of down + big surface of body = resistance in air unseen servant is an amount of force (about 100N) which can be used to [table from my last article] move or close door.................3,5N move small lever...................8N tilt over chair....................10N open modern drawer with wheels.....10N open drawer without wheels.........10-25N push over a standing person........35N pull/push heavy table.........more than 100N so IMO it _is_ possible to mimick levitate (or even more) with this combination. BUT: If you really want to combine spells in AD&D, be careful. The spell system is not flexible enough to make combinations. Perhaps you should change all spell descriptions to something like (e.g. feather fall): this spell changes gravity for the recipient from 9.81 m/s2 to 0.5 m/s2 |> and while we're on the subject how would feather fall affect the climb walls |> skill? spider climb, right? :-) Alex (looking forward to another great Physics & Magic debate) +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |"Dad! You shot the Flanders-Zombie!" | Alexander Forst | | "He was a Zombie?" | alex@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at| | | University of Technology Vienna| | Bart & Homer Simpson | Institute of Computer Languages| +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Article: 15122 of rec.games.frp.dnd Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Path: email!news.univie.ac.at!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!news.cs.brandeis.edu!chaos.cs.brandeis.edu!tamitha From: tamitha@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Tamitha Carpenter) Subject: Re: another rules question Message-ID: Keywords: magic spell, spell combination Sender: news@news.cs.brandeis.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Brandeis University References: <1993Jun1.140242.27617@email.tuwien.ac.at> Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1993 15:56:02 GMT Lines: 32 [Question about feather-fall/levitate and Unseen Servant deleted (oops)] I would rule that the feather-fall and Unseen Servant combination would work better than the levitate-US pair, since the levitate IMHO implies more of a magical force HOLDING you up in the air. Yes, I would allow you to pull yourself along a wall while under the influence of a levitate, but it would be like draging yourself (and all of your equipment) across the floor. I like the force-in-newtons table for what an Unseen Servant can or cannot do, and pulling a whole body plus equipment might strain it too much. The feather-fall and US combination would work great for the duration of the feather-fall spell. Since you are only the mass of a small piece of down, the Unseen Servant could drag you all over the "cavern." In our campaign, there was once the situation of a low level mage stuck in a region of no-gravity. The room was spinning and the characters were careening all over the place, striking each other, and otehrwise being hazardous. The clever mage-player chose to cast his Unseen Servant and grab a hold of himself to manuever. Since the Unseen Servant is simply a force that moves objects, it provided something akin to vectored thrust for the mage or whoever the US was grabing ahold of. That is what I call creative spell casting! It ALSO fit so well into the spells/physics system of my campaign, that it has become one of the best uses for the Unseen Servant. Wizard of the 7th Cricle David E. Wall email to: wiz@donald.phast.umass.edu or this account. Article: 15191 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: email!news.univie.ac.at!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!prism!gt0299d From: gt0299d@prism.gatech.EDU (Curtis N. Sayre) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: another rules question Keywords: magic spell, spell combination Message-ID: <100384@hydra.gatech.EDU> Date: 2 Jun 93 19:59:22 GMT References: <1993Jun1.140242.27617@email.tuwien.ac.at> Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology Lines: 32 > >Alex (looking forward to another great Physics & Magic debate) > As it was said, "Fools rush in..." This thread got me to wondering about feather fall. Now I might be stretching the rules a bit, but I generally play the more mundane classes (fighters and theives), so be gentle on me in my foray into magic. That said, suppose a big burly fighter/barbarian/oger/whatever is barreling down upon a mage. Could he cast feather fall on his opponent (and assuming saving throw failed) would that opponent be able to harm him for the duration of the spell? After all, the damage of a weapon should be related to its momentum, which is in turn related to the mass. If a fighter's arm/oger's fist suddenly had the mass of a piece of down, would it be possible to hurt the mage? I guess that the ogre could squueze the life outta the mage, as strength would have little to do with mass. Also, if that was the case, could a strong wind blow the fighter away? As it was pointed out, the greater the surface area, the more the wind resistance... Just curious, Curt -- Internet: gt0299d@prism.gatech.edu "It is in the extremes that our philosophies are tested, and those of us who are serious do not set aside our ethics merely because in some cases they have become inconvenient or distasteful." - Piers Anthony Article: 15195 of rec.games.frp.dnd Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Path: email!news.univie.ac.at!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!uchinews!kimbark!mtlindem From: mtlindem@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Sly) Subject: Re: another rules question Message-ID: <1993Jun2.210045.25754@midway.uchicago.edu> Keywords: magic spell, spell combination Sender: news@uchinews.uchicago.edu (News System) Reply-To: mtlindem@midway.uchicago.edu Organization: University of Chicago References: <1993Jun1.140242.27617@email.tuwien.ac.at> <100384@hydra.gatech.EDU> Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1993 21:00:45 GMT Lines: 31 In article <100384@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt0299d@prism.gatech.EDU (Curtis N. Sayre) writes: >That said, suppose a big burly fighter/barbarian/oger/whatever is >barreling down upon a mage. Could he cast feather fall on his opponent >(and assuming saving throw failed) would that opponent be able to harm >him for the duration of the spell? > >After all, the damage of a weapon should be related to its momentum, which >is in turn related to the mass. If a fighter's arm/oger's fist suddenly >had the mass of a piece of down, would it be possible to hurt the mage? >I guess that the ogre could squueze the life outta the mage, as strength >would have little to do with mass. Also, if that was the case, >could a strong wind blow the fighter away? As it was pointed out, the greater >the surface area, the more the wind resistance... I am not in any sense a physics expert, but I think that you have terms confused. It is true, isn't it, that mass has no effect on falling rate, and that everything falls at 9.8m/s^2 (please, no huge physics discussions, I would like to just keep this simple and learn what the truth is)? So if feather fall affects the mass of something, it wouldn't change it's rate of falling? Wouldn't feather fall actually have to affect the shape and surface area of what is falling? I could be very wrong, and will probably think of the answer tomorrow and hit myself for my stupidity. -------------------------------------------------- | "In the midst of the word he was trying to say | | In the midst of his laughter and glee, | -Sly | He had softly and suddenly vanished away---- | | For the Snark was a Boojum, you see." | mtlindem@midway.uchicago.edu | Lewis Carroll | -------------------------------------------------- Article: 15210 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: email!news.univie.ac.at!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!aludra.usc.edu!not-for-mail From: bharring@aludra.usc.edu (Bryce Harrington) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: another rules question Date: 2 Jun 1993 18:33:46 -0700 Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA Lines: 31 Sender: nntp@aludra.usc.edu Message-ID: <1ujkdqINN6pf@aludra.usc.edu> References: <1993Jun1.140242.27617@email.tuwien.ac.at> <100384@hydra.gatech.EDU> <1993Jun2.210045.25754@midway.uchicago.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu Keywords: magic spell, spell combination In article <1993Jun2.210045.25754@midway.uchicago.edu> mtlindem@midway.uchicago.edu writes: >>As it was pointed out, the greater >>the surface area, the more the wind resistance... > > I am not in any sense a physics expert, but I think that you have >terms confused. It is true, isn't it, that mass has no effect on falling >rate, and that everything falls at 9.8m/s^2. This is only true if you neglect air resistance. >So if feather fall affects the mass of something, it wouldn't change >it's rate of falling? Wouldn't feather fall actually have to affect the >shape and surface area of what is falling? It depends on the item's surface area: a thing with a big surface area but a low mass (like a parachute or a piece of paper or a feather) will fall at a slower rate than normal. But you knew this, didn't you ;-) Anyway, so if a big, burly fighter with the mass of, say a gram, will be "held up" by the air just like a piece of down. Now, to the question about using "Feather Fall" as an offensive weapon: I would rule that if you cast the spell on an enemy, he would be unable to move effectively because the friction of his boots on the floor would not be enough to move him against the resistance of the air. Ever seen a Fred Flintstone cartoon? You get the picture. Note that melee attacks would be impossible, but spells, psionics, and missile attacks should function as normal, though firing an arbeques would send you shooting away (no damage, of course). Hmmm, feather fall and an arbeques... Wile E. Coyote would be proud. Article: 15225 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: email!news.univie.ac.at!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!network.ucsd.edu!sdcc14!ph600fhv From: ph600fhv@sdcc14.ucsd.edu (Dale Lewis) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: another rules question Date: 3 Jun 1993 07:56:12 GMT Organization: University of California, San Diego Lines: 19 Message-ID: <1ukaqsINNhq@network.ucsd.edu> References: <1993Jun1.140242.27617@email.tuwien.ac.at> <100384@hydra.gatech.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: sdcc14.ucsd.edu Keywords: magic spell, spell combination I was reading all your people's posts on the uses of an "offensive" Feather Fall and got really intrigued, sounds neat I said. Ah, then I went and looked up the spell again...buried in the example they list near the end it says, "The spell works only upon free-falling, flying, or propelled objects (such as missles). It does not affect a sword blow or a charging creature." Sorry guys, looks like you can't do that to me...at least if you go by the exact rules in the book. I think it's really just kind of a cop out they threw in to keep you from doing things like turning that charging Troll into a feather (mass-wise)...with Feather Fall. However, there is a 2nd level spell in the Tome of Magic called "Ride the Wind" which will accomplish exactly what you are trying to do. Well similar, the creature gets a saving throw and they can control their altitude (but not direction or speed). Just more random thoughts from |)ale |_ewis dlewis@ucsd.edu Article: 15233 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: email!news.univie.ac.at!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!uunet!ug!steveg Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: another rules question Message-ID: <1993Jun3.131055.1@arc.ug.eds.com> From: steveg@arc.ug.eds.com Date: 3 Jun 93 13:10:55 GMT References: <1993Jun1.140242.27617@email.tuwien.ac.at> <100384@hydra.gatech.EDU> <1993Jun2.210045.25754@midway.uchicago.edu> Organization: EDS SCICON, GDS Solutions, Cambridge, UK Nntp-Posting-Host: 55661 Nntp-Posting-User: steveg Lines: 46 mtlindem@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Sly) writes: > In article <100384@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt0299d@prism.gatech.EDU (Curtis N. Sayre) writes: >>[about things that featherfall might cause/allow] > > I am not in any sense a physics expert, but I think that you have > terms confused. It is true, isn't it, that mass has no effect on falling > rate, and that everything falls at 9.8m/s^2 (please, no huge physics > discussions, I would like to just keep this simple and learn what the truth > is)? So if feather fall affects the mass of something, it wouldn't change > it's rate of falling? Wouldn't feather fall actually have to affect the > shape and surface area of what is falling? I could be very wrong, and > will probably think of the answer tomorrow and hit myself for my stupidity. when a body falls, its acceleration = gravity - (force of air resistance/mass) The force of air resistance goes as the square of velocity, and varies according to the shape of the body. As mass goes down (under the effect of a spell, say), with all else equal, the acceleration is reduced. The velocity at which the acceleration becomes zero is the terminal velocity (which is ~120mph for a normal human mass & shape). aside 1) remember the experiment that the Apollo astronauts did, dropping a hammer & a feather & showing they did fall at the same rate in vacuo. If you try this at home, the feather will encounter much more significant air resistance & take longer to fall. aside 2) The above asssumes that inertial mass and gravitational mass are both reduced in tandem. If gravitational mass is reduced differently than inertial mass then acceleration = (gravity*gravitational mass - force of air resistance) --------------------------------------------------- inertial mass so terminal velocity is reduced with lowered gravitational mass, and acceleration by lowered inertial mass. aside 3) If the character's mass/volume drops towards the 1gram/litre of the ambient air, buoyancy will also start to become important, countering the weight, giving an upwards acceleration of density of air * volume / inertial mass which has been previously neglected. Article: 15234 of rec.games.frp.dnd Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Path: email!mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at!alex From: alex@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Alexander Forst) Subject: Re: another rules question Message-ID: <1993Jun3.135342.13989@email.tuwien.ac.at> Keywords: magic spell, spell combination Sender: news@email.tuwien.ac.at Nntp-Posting-Host: mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at Organization: Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Universitaet Wien References: <1993Jun1.140242.27617@email.tuwien.ac.at> <100384@hydra.gatech.EDU> <1ukaqsINNhq@network.ucsd.edu> Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1993 13:53:42 GMT Lines: 26 In article <1ukaqsINNhq@network.ucsd.edu>, ph600fhv@sdcc14.ucsd.edu (Dale Lewis) writes: |> I was reading all your people's posts on the uses of an |> "offensive" Feather Fall and got really intrigued, sounds neat I |> said. Ah, then I went and looked up the spell again...buried in the |> example they list near the end it says, "The spell works only upon |> free-falling, flying, or propelled objects (such as missles). It |> does not affect a sword blow or a charging creature." Sorry guys, |> looks like you can't do that to me...at least if you go by the exact |> rules in the book. I think it's really just kind of a cop out they |> threw in to keep you from doing things like turning that charging |> Troll into a feather (mass-wise)...with Feather Fall. That's exactly what I meant with "The spell system is not flexible enough to make combinations." You have to stick to the spell description or you have to state exactly what physical laws are affected by a spell or change the system as a whole. But those combinations are always worth a try... :-) -- +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |"Dad! You shot the Flanders-Zombie!" | Alexander Forst | | "He was a Zombie?" | alex@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at| | | University of Technology Vienna| | Bart & Homer Simpson | Institute of Computer Languages| +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Article: 15199 of rec.games.frp.dnd Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Path: email!news.univie.ac.at!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!silver.ucs.indiana.edu!mberz From: mberz@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (michael n berz) Subject: Physics of Feather Fall (by imcc@ukc.ac.uk) Message-ID: Sender: news@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: silver.ucs.indiana.edu Organization: Indiana University Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1993 21:52:52 GMT Lines: 79 A treatise of Feather Fall, by Iain Clarke I'm revising for physics finals, so I just had to put my oar into this debate. I don't have my PHB here, but the pertinent fact of the spell is that it lowers your mass to that of a feather. It doesn't say what mass this is. Is it a big/small/tiny feather etc. I'll assume a v. low mass one, else this all becomes pointless. At the risk of treading on toes, I'll go *way* back to basics. Force down on an object is proportional to it's mass. F = mg where m is the mass of the object, and g is the constant of proportionality. (g= 9.81 m/(s*s) for the earth) The acceleration of an object due to gravity is constant, and thus in the absense of air resistance, objects fall at the same rate. One of the astronauts demonstrated that on the moon, a hammer and a feather will fall at the same rate. Air resistance complicates things however. The resistive force is (near as dammit) proportional to the velocity of the object, the cross- sectional area in the direction of motion, and acts to decrease that velocity. We'll call the constant of proportionality 'k' (it's traditional) The mass of the object is 'm', it's velocity 'v', the gravitational field 'g', the net acceleration 'a', and the area is 'A'. *phew* F= Net force on object. (downwards) G = gravitational force R = air resistance. Newton's 1st law: F = ma OK! Equation time..... F = G + R thus, ma = mg + (-kvA) a = g - kvA/m If v = mg/kA, then a = 0, thus no further acceleration, thus v stays the same (Until you hit the ground) This limiting v is the 'Terminal Velocity' OK, what can you change? 'g'? Nope, not without reverse gravity, or planetbusting spells. 'k'? Nope, it's a property of the air. OK, if you change the temperature, k varies a teeny-weeny amount. Basically, No. So the terminal velocity varies with m and 1/A. You could increase your area in the direction of motion. That's how parachutes work. Or you could lower your mass (this is how feather fall works.) [and you thought I'd forgotten about that part!] So big hulking fighters would fall slower than slim mages with this spell, as Mr Hulk has a larger 'A', and with the spell, has an identical 'm' ------------------------ One other point. Someone suggested casting feather fall, and then get carried around by an Unseen Servant. Air resistance would still apply. If you carry a feather in your open hand, and then move your hand rapidly to the side, the feather sometimes stays put..... Gust of wind might be a better spell, but it isn't 1st level. Oh weeeell. ------------------------- Well, that's all for tonight Physics with Iain. Tune in next week to have your other leg bored off. Article: 15209 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: email!news.univie.ac.at!paladin.american.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!darwin.sura.net!sgiblab!adagio.panasonic.com!nntp-server.caltech.edu!jmiguel From: jmiguel@cco.caltech.edu (John Miguel Baker) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: Physics of Feather Fall (by imcc@ukc.ac.uk) Date: 3 Jun 1993 01:14:30 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 14 Message-ID: <1ujj9mINN6u@gap.caltech.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lloyd.caltech.edu Feather Fall allows the caster to survive falls from great heights by making one's mass like a feather. I always ruled that that's the only thing the spell can do. If you're falling, fine, if you're swinging a sword, nothing happens. It only changes your falling velocity to a safe speed. I don't want to hear all the physics about this. It's MAGIC. By its nature it doesn't follow physics. If it did, more mages would run around with physics proficiencies. John Baker Article: 15243 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: email!news.univie.ac.at!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!hamblin.math.byu.edu!yvax.byu.edu!cunyvm!x40kb Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: another rules question Message-ID: <93154.105912X40KB@CUNYVM.BITNET> From: TimeLord Date: Thursday, 3 Jun 1993 10:59:12 EDT References: <1993Jun1.140242.27617@email.tuwien.ac.at> <100384@hydra.gatech.EDU> Organization: City University of New York Lines: 50 >This thread got me to wondering about feather fall. Now I might be >stretching the rules a bit, but I generally play the more mundane >classes (fighters and theives), so be gentle on me in my foray into magic. > >That said, suppose a big burly fighter/barbarian/oger/whatever is >barreling down upon a mage. Could he cast feather fall on his opponent >(and assuming saving throw failed) would that opponent be able to harm >him for the duration of the spell? > It is important to notice 2 possibilities: 1) decrease of mass and 2) decrease of target's gravity constant. In the above example, the fighter/barbarian/orge/whatever would usually do normal damage if the g's are decreased, as constant mass means same momentum and inertia. If the mass was decreased, the charachter would be ineffective for almost any physical activity - even movement by pushing him/herself away from the walls and such. (decrease in g's, suggested in one of previous posts, results constant mass, but lower weight - i.e. on Moon; decrease in mass also results decrease in weight, but inertia will decrease as well; thus air resistance will effectively negate any movement momentum) >After all, the damage of a weapon should be related to its momentum, which >is in turn related to the mass. If a fighter's arm/oger's fist suddenly >had the mass of a piece of down, would it be possible to hurt the mage? >I guess that the ogre could squueze the life outta the mage, as strength >would have little to do with mass. Also, if that was the case, >could a strong wind blow the fighter away? As it was pointed out, the greater >the surface area, the more the wind resistance... If anything, the warrior's effectivenes would be INCREASED with the decrease of g's/constant mass - with Zero-g maneuvering NWP, of course. Due to much higher movement ability his AC should go down he would be able to make high/long jumps, carry extra weight since his body weight is negligible etc. (BTW, extra weight can be used as stabilizer, but thrown down for emergencies or quick escapes) On the other hand, warrior would be almost immobile with decreased mass (you can thick of MANY problems). Very hard to move due to air resistance/ absence of mass; any physical attack would throw you away due to nagligible inertia (you would not fly far though - like a feather thrown) etc. etc. Probably someone should research 2 versions of the 'feather fall' spell - the one that decreases the mass, and the one that decreases gravity constant. ------- ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| == Best luck, Earthworms!!! You look like you need all the luck you can get!== == (GDR - Grinning, Ducking & Rrunning;-) == == == == *** T I M E L O R D *** == == X40KB@CUNYVM.BITNET HURR-GHA (MONGOLIAN-'KILL THE ENEMY!") == ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Article: 15253 of rec.games.frp.dnd Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Path: email!news.univie.ac.at!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!aio!casivils From: casivils@lescsse.jsc.nasa.gov (craig sivils) Subject: Re: another rules question Message-ID: Keywords: magic spell, spell combination Sender: usenet@aio.jsc.nasa.gov (USENET News Client) Organization: Lockheed Engineering and Sciences References: <1993Jun1.140242.27617@email.tuwien.ac.at> <100384@hydra.gatech.EDU> <1993Jun2.210045.25754@midway.uchicago.edu> Date: 3 Jun 93 17:06:59 GMT Lines: 42 In <1993Jun2.210045.25754@midway.uchicago.edu> mtlindem@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Sly) writes: >In article <100384@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt0299d@prism.gatech.EDU (Curtis N. Sayre) writes: >>That said, suppose a big burly fighter/barbarian/oger/whatever is >>barreling down upon a mage. Could he cast feather fall on his opponent >>(and assuming saving throw failed) would that opponent be able to harm >>him for the duration of the spell? >> >>After all, the damage of a weapon should be related to its momentum, which >>is in turn related to the mass. If a fighter's arm/oger's fist suddenly >>had the mass of a piece of down, would it be possible to hurt the mage? >>I guess that the ogre could squueze the life outta the mage, as strength >>would have little to do with mass. Also, if that was the case, >>could a strong wind blow the fighter away? As it was pointed out, the greater >>the surface area, the more the wind resistance... The spell description states that it must be cast on a free flying object, it specifically states that it cannot be cast on a chargin opponent. :( Now if you could some how get the opponent in the Air???????? > I am not in any sense a physics expert, but I think that you have >terms confused. It is true, isn't it, that mass has no effect on falling >rate, and that everything falls at 9.8m/s^2 (please, no huge physics >discussions, I would like to just keep this simple and learn what the truth >is)? So if feather fall affects the mass of something, it wouldn't change >it's rate of falling? Wouldn't feather fall actually have to affect the >shape and surface area of what is falling? I could be very wrong, and >will probably think of the answer tomorrow and hit myself for my stupidity. Everything falls at 9.8m/s^2 IN A VACUME (that doesn't look like I spelled it right) Air resistance is based on the size of the object, gravitational attraction is based on the mass of the object so if you decrease the mass but keep the size the same, the wind resistance would slow the rate of fall of the object. Thats why a feather falls so slowly compared to say, a bowling ball. So technically if the mage was falling in a vacume then feather fall would not help the poor soul, but I think if the mage was falling in a vacume that he/she would have some other pressing problems besides the rate of descent. :) Craig Article: 15279 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: email!news.univie.ac.at!paladin.american.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!darwin.sura.net!sgiblab!a2i!shakala!melchar From: melchar@shakala.com (Barbara Haddad) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: another rules question Keywords: magic spell, spell combination Message-ID: Date: Thu, 03 Jun 93 15:11:22 PDT References: <100384@hydra.gatech.EDU> Organization: Shakala BBS (ClanZen Radio Network) Sunnyvale, CA +1-408-734-2289 Lines: 13 > That said, suppose a big burly fighter/barbarian/oger/whatever is > barreling down upon a mage. Could he cast feather fall on his opponent > (and assuming saving throw failed) would that opponent be able to harm > him for the duration of the spell? IMHO, the only way for someone to be affected by the spell 'feather fall' is by first falling 10 feet plus.........and by the write-up of the spell in the PH, it looks like (a) it isn't an offensive spell, (b) it affects a 10'cube & (c) there's no saving throw...... ------------------------------------------------------------------ Barbara Haddad - melchar@shakala.com Shakala BBS (ClanZen Radio Network) Sunnyvale, CA +1-408-734-2289