Article: 48152 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!paladin.american.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uhog.mit.edu!news.kei.com!ddsw1!mobius.pr.mcs.net!user From: mobius@Mercury.mcs.com (Rob Repp) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: COPYRIGHT POLICY Date: Tue, 06 Sep 1994 15:59:00 -0500 Organization: TSR, Inc. Lines: 70 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: mobius.pr.mcs.net PLEASE REPOST - OFFICIAL CORPORATE STATEMENT >REGARDING TRADEMARKED AND COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL USED ON-LINE: TSR is now an active member of the on-line gaming community. Since Day-One, TSR products and artwork have been developed by creative people employed or hired by TSR. This has resulted in the creation of an extensive line of products, identities, names, rules, game mechanics, logos, and standards of quality, to name a few. The gaming products, novels, and publications are designed to encourage resourcefulness and creativity in play. All of these created properties are owned by TSR through national trademarks and copyrights which protect their publication ­ electronically or published on paper. When they are published by anyone other than TSR, Inc. or their licensees, this publication becomes an infringement to TSR trademarks and copyrights. However, the gamers, designers, writers, artists, and editors who work for TSR, do not wish to inhibit role playing game play. >SOME SUGGESTIONS FOR CONTINUED PLAY: WHEN USING TSR PROPERTIES: You can create material using the AD&D game mechanics, etc. and place that material on MPGNet, a licensee of TSR, or place it on AOL on TSR's new Bulletin Board. You can download anything -- graphics, games, etc. appearing on TSR AOL for your personal use. Currently, any other distribution to the general public ­ in paper form or on the net ­ of AD&D adventures, other TSR materials and game mechanics, or copyrighted materials is considered unauthorized. However, you CAN freely distribute or publish "generic" novels, stories, game mechanics, etc. Read on. HOW TO CREATE GENERIC MATERIAL ­ SOME TIPS: Don't specifically use AD&D statistics. Be creative. If you want a PC to encounter a stupid but strong NPC, let the GM determine the NPC's actual stats for the game system used by that GM. If the party encounters a hydra, let the GM look up the stats for the hydra in the game system he is using. Don't set the adventures in a TSR world. Create your own or use one from history or legend. For example, you could set your adventure in Atlantis, but not in the FORGOTTEN REALMS Adventure World. Don't use monsters, spells, etc. that were created by TSR. Create and name your own. Draw on history, legend or reality ­ even spell their actual names backward for uniqueness. Or, if a monster or spell is used in several different game systems, this is a good indication that it is not owned by TSR. For example, Drow were created by TSR, but a hydra is a known legendary monster and is public domain. You really can get going creatively when you invent your own, unique, game mechanics . . . worlds, monsters, etc. And you are free to publish anywhere when you specifically do not rely on AD&D game mechanics or other material from TSR. With our new on-line forum on AOL, we'd like to hear from you about games, graphics, audio, and other material you'd like to download for your own gaming. Please let us know. We plan to be electronically publishing a lot of great things in the future for your gaming use. (R) and TM designate trademarks owned by TSR, Inc. (c) 1994 TSR, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Rob Repp | InterNet: tsrinc@aol.com Manager, Digital Projects Group | InterNet: mobius@mercury.mcs.com TSR, Inc. | CompuServe: 76217,761 __________________________________ | GEnie: TSR.Online AOL: TSR Inc All opinions are my own, not TSR's | 414-248-3625 Fax 414-248-0389 Article: 48161 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!gt-news!cae.cad.gatech.edu!cae.cad.gatech.edu!not-for-mail From: vapspcx@cad.gatech.edu (S. Keith Graham) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Date: 6 Sep 1994 17:35:03 -0400 Organization: Free Agent Lines: 38 Message-ID: <34ina7$a9d@cae.cad.gatech.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: cae.cad.gatech.edu In mobius@Mercury.mcs.com (Rob Repp) writes: >PLEASE REPOST - OFFICIAL CORPORATE STATEMENT >>SOME SUGGESTIONS FOR CONTINUED PLAY: >WHEN USING TSR PROPERTIES: >You can create material using the AD&D game mechanics, etc. and place that >material on MPGNet, a licensee of TSR, or place it on AOL on TSR's new >Bulletin Board. You can download anything -- graphics, games, etc. >appearing on TSR AOL for your personal use. Currently, any other >distribution to the general public ­ in paper form or on the net ­ of >AD&D adventures, other TSR materials and game mechanics, or copyrighted >materials is considered unauthorized. However, you CAN freely distribute >or publish "generic" novels, stories, game mechanics, etc. Read on. Note that they just explicitly outlawed distribution of characters, house rules, or modules between any two people. Thank you T$R. I'll tell my DM that he can't have a copy of my character for his records from now on. >Or, if a monster or spell is used in several different game systems, this >is a good indication that it is not owned by TSR. For example, Drow were >created by TSR, but a hydra is a known legendary monster and is public >domain. Drow were not created by T$R, just as trivia. >With our new on-line forum on AOL, we'd like to hear from you about games, >graphics, audio, and other material you'd like to download for your own >gaming. Please let us know. We plan to be electronically publishing a lot >of great things in the future for your gaming use. Wow, did I predict this coming, or what? Keith Graham vapspcx@cad.gatech.edu Article: 48165 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!concert!bigblue.oit.unc.edu!gibbs!jmartz From: jmartz@gibbs.oit.unc.edu (John Michael Martz) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Date: 6 Sep 1994 22:03:51 GMT Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill Lines: 52 Message-ID: <34ip07$u7s@bigblue.oit.unc.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: gibbs.oit.unc.edu In article , Rob Repp wrote: >PLEASE REPOST - OFFICIAL CORPORATE STATEMENT > > >>REGARDING TRADEMARKED AND COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL USED ON-LINE: >TSR is now an active member of the on-line gaming community. Since Welcome. >logos, and standards of quality, to name a few. The gaming products, >novels, and publications are designed to encourage resourcefulness and >creativity in play. All of these created properties are owned by TSR >through national trademarks and copyrights which protect their publication >­ electronically or published on paper. When they are published by anyone >other than TSR, Inc. or their licensees, this publication becomes an >infringement to TSR trademarks and copyrights. snip >>SOME SUGGESTIONS FOR CONTINUED PLAY: > >WHEN USING TSR PROPERTIES: >You can create material using the AD&D game mechanics, etc. and place that >material on MPGNet, a licensee of TSR, or place it on AOL on TSR's new >Bulletin Board. You can download anything -- graphics, games, etc. >appearing on TSR AOL for your personal use. Currently, any other >distribution to the general public ­ in paper form or on the net ­ of >AD&D adventures, other TSR materials and game mechanics, or copyrighted >materials is considered unauthorized. However, you CAN freely distribute >or publish "generic" novels, stories, game mechanics, etc. Read on. So, I'm to take it that the DARK SUN Net Handbook would be officially sanctioned if it was placed on these sites? >HOW TO CREATE GENERIC MATERIAL ­ SOME TIPS: The DSNHB will not be genericized--it would defeat its purpose. >With our new on-line forum on AOL, we'd like to hear from you about games, >graphics, audio, and other material you'd like to download for your own >gaming. Please let us know. We plan to be electronically publishing a lot >of great things in the future for your gaming use. How about backdated DRAGON articles? JOHN -- * John M. Martz: Psychology Dept, UNC-CH * * | CB# 3270, Davie Hall | B = f(P,E) | | Chapel Hill, NC 27599 | --Kurt Lewin | * JOHN_MARTZ@UNC.EDU * * Article: 48177 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!newstf01.cr1.aol.com!search01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: silveras@aol.com (Silveras) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Date: 6 Sep 1994 19:57:02 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 18 Sender: news@search01.news.aol.com Message-ID: <34ivke$p0n@search01.news.aol.com> References: <34ina7$a9d@cae.cad.gatech.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: search01.news.aol.com In article <34ina7$a9d@cae.cad.gatech.edu>, vapspcx@cad.gatech.edu (S. Keith Graham) writes: >Note that they just explicitly outlawed distribution of characters, >house rules, or modules between any two people. > >Thank you T$R. I'll tell my DM that he can't have a copy of my character >for his records from now on. Congratulations! Twenty seconds after TSR makes an overture, you slam the door on their fingers. Very adult. Read more closely; they have been talking about public posting to general access areas. No mention of limitations on direct exchanges between individuals or within a private group has been made. Gosh, I'm proud to be part of the in-line community; so open-minded and fair..... Silveras@aol.com Article: 48186 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!uunet!news.claremont.edu!chs.cusd.claremont.edu!mbostwic From: mbostwic@chs.cusd.claremont.edu Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Date: 7 Sep 1994 01:01:58 GMT Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont CA Lines: 53 Message-ID: <34j3e6$goq@jaws.cs.hmc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: chs.cusd.claremont.edu Originator: mbostwic@chs.cusd.claremont.edu I don't get this, why can T$R copyright all of this material and say on the cover, that if you don't understand something, "make it up!" They keep on telling us that we can not distribute our own ideas, have fun with makeing up new rules, and have fun with the "roleplaying experence." All Roleplaying ideas (if I am right), are based on the ideas of creativity. Creativity (obviously) comes from with in your self. If someone is no longer able to create and have fun with what ever they are doing, WHAT IS THE POINT of roleplaying games! Just by the roleplaying experence you must have fun SHAREING INFORMATION with others. This is part of what the whole experence is about. With out the shareing of information, the game is one sided, and all thatis left is sitting in a corner reading roleplaying books. I do admit that it is sometimes fun reading a game book to learn new stuff, but that is not what the game is about. The game is about having fun with creativty, and osperanious oritor with others. I know, I've probably said some things that are not quite true, but I'm sorry.... that TSR has to act so low. Just by writing an artical like this, it makes people (like me) feel sad about a company that used to be all right.... Don't get me wrong, I like the system, (somewhat), but its the money involved with the people behind the system that I don't like. I'm one of those people who can NOT stand people who do not let others do what they intended, and what would be the best thing for its users. I think that this usenet group is one of the best ways to promote roleplaying games, and to let users have an enviorment, that can quickly answer questions et cetra. This usenet group is an excelent altrenitive to TSRs chezy Dragon Magazine, (although some stuff this dosn't have), and the best part is that everything comes from the users, who play the system. I'm just so sorry that they (TSR) could stoop so low.. ;(. A very disapointed person, (unless they can redeem themselves): /mAtT/ / (mbostwic@chs.cusd.claremont.edu) -- ******* ******* *%**%** **%**%* ******* ******* ******* ******* Article: 48187 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!paladin.american.edu!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gumby!yale!yale!yale.edu!noc.near.net!chaos.dac.neu.edu!not-for-mail From: tfarrell@lynx.dac.neu.edu (Thomas Farrell) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Date: 6 Sep 1994 21:32:14 -0400 Organization: Division of Academic Computing, Northeastern University, Boston, MA. USA Lines: 26 Message-ID: <34j56u$9v4@lynx.dac.neu.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lynx.dac.neu.edu I had been planning the purchase of about $150 of Forgotten Realms stuff in about two weeks, but based upon this policy, I feel that I will have to think it over again. I'm not sure I want to use your game world if I can't write my own additions to it and give them to my friends. Oh, by the way, I'd like to announce to the world at large that I will be creating a new role playing game system. I know there are plenty of those in the world now, and I'm sure mine isn't going to have any thrilling new innovations that will turn the universe on its ear, but it will have one nice feature: I intend to make it available on the internet for free. I will probably copyright the material, and will then make it available for free use. Additionally, I will not place any kind of restrictions on quotation of reproduction of my system or the text thereof, in whole or in part, so long as I'm credited. Lastly, any related materials that I or you develop for the system you may do as you please with. I anticipate an initial release of the material for review and commentary within two to three months. Ciao for niao, Tom -- ______ \ / Anything worth doing gets \ / Patricia Ireland arrested. \/ -Lynn Lavner Article: 48193 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!paladin.american.edu!gatech!psuvax1!psuvm!trm900 Organization: Penn State University Date: Tue, 6 Sep 1994 21:43:31 EDT From: Tony R. Marasco Message-ID: <94249.214331TRM900@psuvm.psu.edu> Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY References: <34ina7$a9d@cae.cad.gatech.edu> Lines: 36 In article <34ina7$a9d@cae.cad.gatech.edu>, vapspcx@cad.gatech.edu (S. Keith Graham) says: > >In mobius@Mercury.mcs.com (Rob ) >Repp >writes: > >>WHEN USING TSR PROPERTIES: >>You can create material using the AD&D game mechanics, etc. and place that >>material on MPGNet, a licensee of TSR, or place it on AOL on TSR's new >>Bulletin Board. You can download anything -- graphics, games, etc. >>appearing on TSR AOL for your personal use. Currently, any other >>distribution to the general public - in paper form or on the net - of >>AD&D adventures, other TSR materials and game mechanics, or copyrighted >>materials is considered unauthorized. However, you CAN freely distribute >>or publish "generic" novels, stories, game mechanics, etc. Read on. > >Note that they just explicitly outlawed distribution of characters, >house rules, or modules between any two people. > >Thank you T$R. I'll tell my DM that he can't have a copy of my character >for his records from now on. >==== I don't think that is inferred here. If this was the case then I can't see how you could play the game. I kind of like the idea of a single (well really two) site as a way of orderly distribution. This question still remains: Does the "general public" have the right to produce software (from char. generators to, let's say, a Hypertext DM's Guide) and distribute it providing it's stored on a licensed site? ------- | Tony Marasco | "Questions are a burden for others. | | Penn State University | Answers are a prison for oneself." | | Schuylkill Haven, PA 17976 | - The Prisoner | | trm900@psuvm.psu.edu | Article: 48213 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!uunet!newstf01.cr1.aol.com!search01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: winningerr@aol.com (WinningerR) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Date: 7 Sep 1994 02:22:02 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 19 Sender: news@search01.news.aol.com Message-ID: <34jm6a$2nj@search01.news.aol.com> References: <34ina7$a9d@cae.cad.gatech.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: search01.news.aol.com In article <34ina7$a9d@cae.cad.gatech.edu>, vapspcx@cad.gatech.edu (S. Keith Graham) writes: >>>Note that they just explicitly outlawed distribution of characters, house rules, or modules between any two people. Thank you T$R. I'll tell my DM that he can't have a copy of my character for his records from now on.<<< No, they specifically DIDN'T outlaw such use. "Any two people" is hardly "the general public" just as "my gaming group" is hardly "the general public." >>>Drow were not created by T$R, just as trivia.<<< They were created by? Article: 48214 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!uunet!newstf01.cr1.aol.com!search01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: winningerr@aol.com (WinningerR) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Date: 7 Sep 1994 02:26:05 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 18 Sender: news@search01.news.aol.com Message-ID: <34jmdt$2p7@search01.news.aol.com> References: <34j3e6$goq@jaws.cs.hmc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: search01.news.aol.com In article <34j3e6$goq@jaws.cs.hmc.edu>, mbostwic@chs.cusd.claremont.edu writes: >>>I don't get this, why can T$R copyright all of this material and say on the cover, that if you don't understand something, "make it up!" They keep on telling us that we can not distribute our own ideas, have fun with makeing up new rules, and have fun with the "roleplaying experence."<<< They are not saying you can't make up new rules, etc. They are saying that if you want to share these ideas with the "general public," you must follow their rules. In other words, they fully understand that half the fun of roleplaying games is sharing. Now, they're trying to work out ways that you can share without jeopardizing their rights. Why is MPGNet, AOL, and the promise to eventually bring "mirror sites" on line not enough? Article: 48215 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!uunet!newstf01.cr1.aol.com!search01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: winningerr@aol.com (WinningerR) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Date: 7 Sep 1994 02:28:02 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 11 Sender: news@search01.news.aol.com Message-ID: <34jmhi$2q7@search01.news.aol.com> References: <34j56u$9v4@lynx.dac.neu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: search01.news.aol.com In article <34j56u$9v4@lynx.dac.neu.edu>, tfarrell@lynx.dac.neu.edu (Thomas Farrell) writes: >>>I feel that I will have to think it over again. I'm not sure I want to use your game world if I can't write my own additions to it and give them to my friends.<<< Unless your friends constitute the "general public" no one ever said you couldn't give them your additions to the Realms. Let's be reasonable here. Good luck on the game. I hope it works out. Article: 48216 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!uunet!newstf01.cr1.aol.com!search01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: winningerr@aol.com (WinningerR) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Date: 7 Sep 1994 02:29:05 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 10 Sender: news@search01.news.aol.com Message-ID: <34jmjh$2qn@search01.news.aol.com> References: <94249.214331TRM900@psuvm.psu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: search01.news.aol.com In article <94249.214331TRM900@psuvm.psu.edu>, Tony R. Marasco writes: >>>This question still remains: Does the "general public" have the right to produce software (from char. generators to, let's say, a Hypertext DM's Guide) and distribute it providing it's stored on a licensed site?<<< TSR's uploads clearly imply so. In fact, they mentioned "software" as one of the uploadable categories at some point. Article: 48220 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!sunic!erinews.ericsson.se!eua.ericsson.se!euas64c29!tmptru From: tmptru@eua.ericsson.se (Truls Parsson) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Date: 7 Sep 1994 07:58:50 GMT Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden Lines: 9 Distribution: world Message-ID: <34jrrq$nrm@euas20.eua.ericsson.se> References: <34jm6a$2nj@search01.news.aol.com> Reply-To: tmptru@eua.ericsson.se NNTP-Posting-Host: euas64c29.eua.ericsson.se NNTP-Posting-User: tmptru >>>>Drow were not created by T$R, just as trivia.<<< >They were created by? The race wasn't created by TSR but the name drow was. So you can talk about dark elves without any problems but if you call them drows then your using a TSR name. The Troll Article: 48226 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!nntp.interaccess.com!thanatos From: thanatos@psycfrnd.interaccess.com (Timothy Toner) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Date: 7 Sep 1994 02:14:52 GMT Organization: InterAccess Co. Lines: 17 Message-ID: <34j7mt$dgj@nntp.interaccess.com> References: <34j56u$9v4@lynx.dac.neu.edu> Reply-To: thanatos@interaccess.com NNTP-Posting-Host: psycfrnd.interaccess.com In article <34j56u$9v4@lynx.dac.neu.edu>, Thomas Farrell wrote: >Oh, by the way, I'd like to announce to the world at large that I will >be creating a new role playing game system. [...] >I intend to make it available on the >internet for free. I will probably copyright the material, and will then >make it available for free use. Sorry to be the crasher of your good will, but you can't have it both ways. Either it's 100% Copyrighted, or 100% Public Domain. In essence, it means that once it's in the public domain, you have NO control on how it's used. TSR could paste it in a book (don't worry, they won't) and make a zillion bucks (look at all the freeware distributors. In effect, they're just making the copy available), and you'd be powerless. Article: 48234 of rec.games.frp.dnd Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uhog.mit.edu!news.kei.com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!netcom.com!kynn From: kynn@netcom.com (Kynn Bartlett) Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Message-ID: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) References: Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 10:54:53 GMT Lines: 17 In article , Rob Repp wrote: >Don't use monsters, spells, etc. that were created by TSR. Create and name >your own. Draw on history, legend or reality ­ even spell their actual >names backward for uniqueness. So all that's needed is to spell names backwards? Word elves. Htlol, demon spider queen. Retsnimle. Hey, this is easy. --Nnyk Article: 48235 of rec.games.frp.dnd Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!netcom.com!kynn From: kynn@netcom.com (Kynn Bartlett) Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Message-ID: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) References: <34ina7$a9d@cae.cad.gatech.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 10:56:00 GMT Lines: 13 In article <34ina7$a9d@cae.cad.gatech.edu>, S. Keith Graham wrote: >>Or, if a monster or spell is used in several different game systems, this >>is a good indication that it is not owned by TSR. For example, Drow were >>created by TSR, but a hydra is a known legendary monster and is public >>domain. >Drow were not created by T$R, just as trivia. So who were they created by? --Kynn Article: 48243 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!swrinde!pipex!oleane!lep-philips.fr!procyon!mutz From: mutz@lep-philips.fr (Stephane Mutz) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Date: 7 Sep 1994 14:10:14 GMT Organization: Laboratoires d'Electronique PHILIPS Lines: 13 Distribution: world Message-ID: <34khk6$qqb@procyon.lep-philips.fr> References: <94249.214331TRM900@psuvm.psu.edu> Reply-To: mutz@lep-philips.fr NNTP-Posting-Host: lep.lep-philips.fr Hi As you can see, it's my first participation to this group but I've followed the discussions for a while. As I am french, please excuse my poor writings Is TSR material copyrighted everywhere (I mean in the world) ? Is it possible to establish a list of TSR's terms and bane them from our productions ? This way, our material will not make any reference to TSR's material by will fortunetly be compatible with a famous role playing game. Article: 48244 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!gt-news!cae.cad.gatech.edu!cae.cad.gatech.edu!not-for-mail From: vapspcx@cad.gatech.edu (S. Keith Graham) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Date: 7 Sep 1994 10:03:35 -0400 Organization: Free Agent Lines: 37 Message-ID: <34kh7n$glh@cae.cad.gatech.edu> References: <34j56u$9v4@lynx.dac.neu.edu> <34j7mt$dgj@nntp.interaccess.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: cae.cad.gatech.edu In <34j7mt$dgj@nntp.interaccess.com> thanatos@psycfrnd.interaccess.com (Timothy Toner) writes: >In article <34j56u$9v4@lynx.dac.neu.edu>, >Thomas Farrell wrote: >>Oh, by the way, I'd like to announce to the world at large that I will >>be creating a new role playing game system. >[...] >>I intend to make it available on the >>internet for free. I will probably copyright the material, and will then >>make it available for free use. >Sorry to be the crasher of your good will, but you can't have it both >ways. Either it's 100% Copyrighted, or 100% Public Domain. In essence, >it means that once it's in the public domain, you have NO control on >how it's used. TSR could paste it in a book (don't worry, they won't) >and make a zillion bucks (look at all the freeware distributors. In >effect, they're just making the copy available), and you'd be powerless. Ahm, no. You can have a "license to distribute for free", and provided that the person abides by the license, they may use/distribute the work without violating the copyright. (And you can put conditions on distribution, such as "no modifications of the original", or whatever in the license as well.) If you do not expressly release something into the public domain (i.e. make it free), then you retain the copyright. If you license TSR to distribute it, they then have rights to do with it as they please. (Generally, they would pay you money for such license.) There is a great deal of shareware that may be freely distributed, but is very definately copyrighted. Keith Graham vapspcx@cad.gatech.edu Article: 48249 of rec.games.frp.dnd Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!uunet!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!gatech!udel!gvls1!kennet.paramax.com!schrey From: schrey@kennet.paramax.com (Timothy M. Schreyer) Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Message-ID: <1994Sep7.143742.7123@VFL.Paramax.COM> Sender: news@VFL.Paramax.COM (IEE news user) Nntp-Posting-Host: sdosrv2.kennet.paramax.com Reply-To: schrey@kennet.paramax.com Organization: Unisys Weather Information Services References: <34j56u$9v4@lynx.dac.neu.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 14:37:42 GMT Lines: 22 In article <34j56u$9v4@lynx.dac.neu.edu>, tfarrell@lynx.dac.neu.edu (Thomas Farrell) writes: |> Oh, by the way, I'd like to announce to the world at large that I will |> be creating a new role playing game system. I know there are plenty of |> those in the world now, and I'm sure mine isn't going to have any |> thrilling new innovations that will turn the universe on its ear, but it |> will have one nice feature: I intend to make it available on the |> internet for free. I will probably copyright the material, and will then |> make it available for free use. Additionally, I will not place any kind |> of restrictions on quotation of reproduction of my system or the text |> thereof, in whole or in part, so long as I'm credited. Lastly, any |> related materials that I or you develop for the system you may do as you |> please with. I anticipate an initial release of the material for review |> and commentary within two to three months. |> Oh, FUDGE! (What version is it up to now?) :-) -- Timothy M. Schreyer schrey@kennet.paramax.com Weather Information Services (610) 444-2449 Unisys Government Systems Group FAX: (610) 444-2420 221 Gale Lane, Kennett Square, PA 19348 Article: 48253 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!udel!news.sprintlink.net!redstone.interpath.net!ddsw1!mobius.pr.mcs.net!user From: mobius@Mercury.mcs.com (Rob Repp) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Date: Wed, 07 Sep 1994 10:52:19 -0500 Organization: TSR, Inc. Lines: 26 Message-ID: References: <34ina7$a9d@cae.cad.gatech.edu> <94249.214331TRM900@psuvm.psu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: mobius.pr.mcs.net In article <94249.214331TRM900@psuvm.psu.edu>, Tony R. Marasco wrote: > In article <34ina7$a9d@cae.cad.gatech.edu>, vapspcx@cad.gatech.edu (S. Keith > Graham) says: > This question still remains: Does the "general public" have the right to > produce software (from char. generators to, let's say, a Hypertext DM's > Guide) and distribute it providing it's stored on a licensed site? Yup. Please include our disclaimer in it, and please limit distribution to licensed sites. > > ------- > | Tony Marasco | "Questions are a burden for others. | > | Penn State University | Answers are a prison for oneself." | > | Schuylkill Haven, PA 17976 | - The Prisoner | > | trm900@psuvm.psu.edu | Rob Repp | InterNet: tsrinc@aol.com Manager, Digital Projects Group | InterNet: mobius@mercury.mcs.com TSR, Inc. | CompuServe: 76217,761 __________________________________ | GEnie: TSR.Online AOL: TSR Inc All opinions are my own, not TSR's | 414-248-3625 Fax 414-248-0389 Article: 48254 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!uunet!panix!ddsw1!mobius.pr.mcs.net!user From: mobius@Mercury.mcs.com (Rob Repp) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Date: Wed, 07 Sep 1994 10:49:15 -0500 Organization: TSR, Inc. Lines: 76 Message-ID: References: <34ip07$u7s@bigblue.oit.unc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: mobius.pr.mcs.net In article <34ip07$u7s@bigblue.oit.unc.edu>, jmartz@gibbs.oit.unc.edu (John Michael Martz) wrote: > In article , > Rob Repp wrote: > >PLEASE REPOST - OFFICIAL CORPORATE STATEMENT > > > > > >>REGARDING TRADEMARKED AND COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL USED ON-LINE: > >TSR is now an active member of the on-line gaming community. Since > > Welcome. > > >logos, and standards of quality, to name a few. The gaming products, > >novels, and publications are designed to encourage resourcefulness and > >creativity in play. All of these created properties are owned by TSR > >through national trademarks and copyrights which protect their publication > >­ electronically or published on paper. When they are published by anyone > >other than TSR, Inc. or their licensees, this publication becomes an > >infringement to TSR trademarks and copyrights. > > snip > > >>SOME SUGGESTIONS FOR CONTINUED PLAY: > > > >WHEN USING TSR PROPERTIES: > >You can create material using the AD&D game mechanics, etc. and place that > >material on MPGNet, a licensee of TSR, or place it on AOL on TSR's new > >Bulletin Board. You can download anything -- graphics, games, etc. > >appearing on TSR AOL for your personal use. Currently, any other > >distribution to the general public ­ in paper form or on the net ­ of > >AD&D adventures, other TSR materials and game mechanics, or copyrighted > >materials is considered unauthorized. However, you CAN freely distribute > >or publish "generic" novels, stories, game mechanics, etc. Read on. > > So, I'm to take it that the DARK SUN Net Handbook would be officially > sanctioned if it was placed on these sites? It would be licensed for distribution, although that may be what you mean by sanctioned. By sanctioned I mean promoted by TSR as an official product, which it would not be. > > >HOW TO CREATE GENERIC MATERIAL ­ SOME TIPS: > > The DSNHB will not be genericized--it would defeat its purpose. > > >With our new on-line forum on AOL, we'd like to hear from you about games, > >graphics, audio, and other material you'd like to download for your own > >gaming. Please let us know. We plan to be electronically publishing a lot > >of great things in the future for your gaming use. > > How about backdated DRAGON articles? Some of that isn't completely clear, since the way (until recently) bought publication rights on this stuff didn;t include electronic publication rights. I'm pretty sure that some of the stuff was written by people outside the company, and so we wouldn't own republication rights of any kind on those. Our legal people are researching this to find out what we do and don;t have permission to reproduce, so until then, we can't let old articles out. After we know what we have rights to, then we'll talk. > > JOHN > -- > * John M. Martz: Psychology Dept, UNC-CH * * > | CB# 3270, Davie Hall | B = f(P,E) | > | Chapel Hill, NC 27599 | --Kurt Lewin | > * JOHN_MARTZ@UNC.EDU * * Rob Repp | InterNet: tsrinc@aol.com Manager, Digital Projects Group | InterNet: mobius@mercury.mcs.com TSR, Inc. | CompuServe: 76217,761 __________________________________ | GEnie: TSR.Online AOL: TSR Inc All opinions are my own, not TSR's | 414-248-3625 Fax 414-248-0389 Article: 48255 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!uunet!panix!ddsw1!mobius.pr.mcs.net!user From: mobius@Mercury.mcs.com (Rob Repp) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Date: Wed, 07 Sep 1994 10:50:03 -0500 Organization: TSR, Inc. Lines: 28 Message-ID: References: <34ina7$a9d@cae.cad.gatech.edu> <34jm6a$2nj@search01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: mobius.pr.mcs.net In article <34jm6a$2nj@search01.news.aol.com>, winningerr@aol.com (WinningerR) wrote: > In article <34ina7$a9d@cae.cad.gatech.edu>, vapspcx@cad.gatech.edu (S. > Keith Graham) writes: > > >>>Note that they just explicitly outlawed distribution of characters, > house rules, or modules between any two people. > > Thank you T$R. I'll tell my DM that he can't have a copy of my character > for his records from now on.<<< > > No, they specifically DIDN'T outlaw such use. "Any two people" is hardly > "the general public" just as "my gaming group" is hardly "the general > public." > > >>>Drow were not created by T$R, just as trivia.<<< > > They were created by? ...TSR. Rob Repp | InterNet: tsrinc@aol.com Manager, Digital Projects Group | InterNet: mobius@mercury.mcs.com TSR, Inc. | CompuServe: 76217,761 __________________________________ | GEnie: TSR.Online AOL: TSR Inc All opinions are my own, not TSR's | 414-248-3625 Fax 414-248-0389 Article: 48264 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!paladin.american.edu!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!ncar!csn!yuma!lamar.ColoState.EDU!not-for-mail From: venkman@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Michael Mezo) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Date: 7 Sep 1994 10:33:23 -0600 Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO 80523 Lines: 11 Message-ID: <34kq0j$5tju@lamar.ColoState.EDU> References: <34j56u$9v4@lynx.dac.neu.edu> <34jmhi$2q7@search01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lamar.acns.colostate.edu In article <34jmhi$2q7@search01.news.aol.com> winningerr@aol.com (WinningerR) writes: Winninger writes: ... Too damn much! Guy, you are at least more clueful than most Aolers, but you are still wasting bandwidth by putting up your one sentance refutations of peoples points. If you could be so kind as to not waste the bandwidth with repeatedly saying the same thing to different posts and instead, make a spool of all the posts, and reply to them in one _single_ message it would be MUSH appreciated. Galen Article: 48265 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!uunet!news.sprintlink.net!redstone.interpath.net!mercury.interpath.net!not-for-mail From: swann@mercury.interpath.net (Stephen Swann) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Date: 7 Sep 1994 12:50:38 -0400 Organization: Interpath -- Public Access UNIX for North Carolina Lines: 22 Message-ID: <34kr0u$jpt@mercury.interpath.net> References: <34j56u$9v4@lynx.dac.neu.edu> <34j7mt$dgj@nntp.interaccess.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: mercury.interpath.net In article <34j7mt$dgj@nntp.interaccess.com>, Timothy Toner wrote: |In article <34j56u$9v4@lynx.dac.neu.edu>, |Thomas Farrell wrote: |>Oh, by the way, I'd like to announce to the world at large that I will |>be creating a new role playing game system. |[...] |>I intend to make it available on the |>internet for free. I will probably copyright the material, and will then |>make it available for free use. | |Sorry to be the crasher of your good will, but you can't have it both |ways. Either it's 100% Copyrighted, or 100% Public Domain He didn't say he would place it in the Public Domain. There's a distinct legal difference between Public Domain and Freely Redistributable. Freely Redistributable materials MAY be copyrighted. -- Stephen Swann | Speak to me in many voices, swann@rock.concert.net | make them all sound like one... - BOC Article: 48267 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!torn!news.unb.ca!academic.stu.StThomasU.ca!mhickey From: mhickey@academic.stu.StThomasU.ca (Matthew Hickey) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Date: 7 Sep 1994 17:20:12 GMT Organization: St.Thomas University Lines: 23 Message-ID: References: <34j56u$9v4@lynx.dac.neu.edu> <34jmhi$2q7@search01.news.aol.com> <34kq0j$5tju@lamar.ColoState.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.197.141.65 >Winninger writes: ... Too damn much! Guy, you are at least more clueful than >most Aolers, but you are still wasting bandwidth by putting up your one >sentance refutations of peoples points. If you could be so kind as to not >waste the bandwidth with repeatedly saying the same thing to different posts >and instead, make a spool of all the posts, and reply to them in one _single_ >message it would be MUSH appreciated. He says the same damn thing because you complain about the same damn thing over and over again. Ask the same question and you will receive the same answer. No, my defending of Winninger is not a sign of early senility or disloyalty to the cause, just a response. >Galen Nightshade Prophet of the Anti-T$R Warmaster of the Revolutionary Army of Mystarra Leader of the Great Reformation Email: MHickey@Academic.STU.StThomasU.Ca Article: 48269 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!uunet!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!rsm58307 From: rsm58307@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Ron) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Date: 7 Sep 1994 17:38:36 GMT Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Lines: 16 Message-ID: <34ktqs$ksf@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> References: <34ina7$a9d@cae.cad.gatech.edu> <34jm6a$2nj@search01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: uxa.cso.uiuc.edu >> >>>Drow were not created by T$R, just as trivia.<<< >> They were created by? >...TSR. >Rob Repp | InterNet: tsrinc@aol.com >Manager, Digital Projects Group | InterNet: mobius@mercury.mcs.com >TSR, Inc. | CompuServe: 76217,761 The term "drow" might have been coined by TSR, but the idea of a dark elf is in the public domain. Look at Wagner's Ring Cycle for one ... -- - ron ----------------------------oOO-(~)-OOo-------------------------------- mathoda@uiuc.edu |o o| rsm58307@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu ~~~~~ Article: 48272 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!paladin.american.edu!gatech!purdue!yuma!lamar.ColoState.EDU!not-for-mail From: venkman@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Michael Mezo) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Date: 7 Sep 1994 11:56:54 -0600 Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO 80523 Lines: 25 Message-ID: <34kut6$6brd@lamar.ColoState.EDU> References: <34j56u$9v4@lynx.dac.neu.edu> <34jmhi$2q7@search01.news.aol.com> <34kq0j$5tju@lamar.ColoState.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: lamar.acns.colostate.edu In article mhickey@academic.stu.StThomasU.ca (Matthew Hickey) writes: >>Winninger writes: ... Too damn much! Guy, you are at least more clueful than >>most Aolers, but you are still wasting bandwidth by putting up your one >>sentance refutations of peoples points. If you could be so kind as to not >>waste the bandwidth with repeatedly saying the same thing to different posts >>and instead, make a spool of all the posts, and reply to them in one _single_ >>message it would be MUSH appreciated. > > He says the same damn thing because you complain about the same damn >thing over and over again. Ask the same question and you will receive the >same answer. > Really, wow, I didn't notice my name amongst all those posts he was replying to earlier today. You'll forgive me for the ignorance in my own posting. >Nightshade >Prophet of the Anti-T$R >Warmaster of the Revolutionary Army of Mystarra >Leader of the Great Reformation >Twit, and brownoser, trying to score brownie points after all his own flames. > >Email: MHickey@Academic.STU.StThomasU.Ca > Article: 48278 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!paladin.american.edu!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!darwin.sura.net!jhunix1.hcf.jhu.edu!blaze.cs.jhu.edu!jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu!not-for-mail From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Date: 7 Sep 1994 14:47:27 -0400 Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept. Lines: 12 Message-ID: <34l1rv$ktr@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu> References: <34ina7$a9d@cae.cad.gatech.edu> <34jm6a$2nj@search01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu Cc: In article , Rob Repp wrote: >> >>>Drow were not created by T$R, just as trivia.<<< >> They were created by? >...TSR. They were not created by TSR either. -- Ken Arromdee (email: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu) ObYouKnowWho Bait: Stuffed Turkey with Gravy and Mashed Potatoes "You, a Decider?" --Romana "I decided not to." --The Doctor Article: 48296 of rec.games.frp.dnd Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!umn.edu!landshark!briareos From: briareos@landshark.micro.umn.edu (Cisco Lopez-Fresquet) Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Message-ID: Sender: news@news.cis.umn.edu (Usenet News Administration) Nntp-Posting-Host: landshark.micro.umn.edu Organization: University of Minnesota CIS References: <34j3e6$goq@jaws.cs.hmc.edu> <34jmdt$2p7@search01.news.aol.com> Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 20:58:16 GMT Lines: 9 TSR's "altruistic" act of setting up a site for us to post to is not acceptable, becuse in order to post to it, we must allow TSR to CENSOR our postings. Please explain how the "free exchange of ideas" can exist in the system they wish to provide. briareos@mermaid.micro.umn.edu Article: 48298 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!uunet!news.sprintlink.net!nwnexus!krel.iea.com!comtch!robertb From: robertb@comtch.iea.com (Robert Blanchard) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Date: 7 Sep 1994 20:42:31 GMT Organization: CompuTech, Spokane WA Lines: 13 Message-ID: <34l8jn$d96@krel.iea.com> References: <34ina7$a9d@cae.cad.gatech.edu> <34jm6a$2nj@search01.news.aol.com> <34ktqs$ksf@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: comtch.iea.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] : The term "drow" might have been coined by TSR, but the idea : of a dark elf is in the public domain. Look at Wagner's Ring : Cycle for one ... also look at Svartalfar from mythology.basicly the same thing just an older reference, or you can look at the tolkiens orks, elves turned evil by morgoth. Drow,Just another thing that T$R would like people think sprang solely from their head of infinite creativity. Robert robertb@comtch.iea.com Article: 48301 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!newstf01.cr1.aol.com!search01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: winningerr@aol.com (WinningerR) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Date: 7 Sep 1994 18:02:02 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 15 Sender: news@search01.news.aol.com Message-ID: <34ld8q$fev@search01.news.aol.com> References: <34ktqs$ksf@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: search01.news.aol.com In article <34ktqs$ksf@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, rsm58307@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Ron) writes: >>>The term "drow" might have been coined by TSR, but the idea of a dark elf is in the public domain. Look at Wagner's Ring Cycle for one ...<<< Well, in the "term" (along with the likeness, culture, etc.) lies the rub. The "idea" of a galactic hero with a laser-pistol pre-dates STAR WARS, but Lucas still "created" Luke Skywalker. In any case, Wagner's elves were nothing like those of the AD&D game, which seem to owe their lineage to Tolkien, who owes his to a vast number of sources. Article: 48302 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!newstf01.cr1.aol.com!search01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: winningerr@aol.com (WinningerR) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Date: 7 Sep 1994 18:04:10 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 7 Sender: news@search01.news.aol.com Message-ID: <34ldcq$fgh@search01.news.aol.com> References: <34l1rv$ktr@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: search01.news.aol.com In article <34l1rv$ktr@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu>, arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes: >>>They were not created by TSR either.<<< Then the big question remains: who did create them? I'm virtually certain they were created by TSR. Article: 48303 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!news.unb.ca!academic.stu.StThomasU.ca!mhickey From: mhickey@academic.stu.StThomasU.ca (Matthew Hickey) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Date: 7 Sep 1994 22:06:56 GMT Organization: St.Thomas University Lines: 38 Message-ID: References: <34j56u$9v4@lynx.dac.neu.edu> <34jmhi$2q7@search01.news.aol.com> <34kq0j$5tju@lamar.ColoState.EDU> <34kut6$6brd@lamar.ColoState.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.197.141.72 In article <34kut6$6brd@lamar.ColoState.EDU> venkman@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Michael Mezo) writes: >> He says the same damn thing because you complain about the same damn >>thing over and over again. Ask the same question and you will receive the >>same answer. >> >Really, wow, I didn't notice my name amongst all those posts he was replying >to earlier today. You'll forgive me for the ignorance in my own posting. This wasn't directed personally at you. Just at everyone who say the same thing twenty times on thirty different threads about the same subject. Case in point: Winninger's all caps declaration a while back about T$R not threatening to close down this newsgroup. >>Nightshade >>Prophet of the Anti-T$R >>Warmaster of the Revolutionary Army of Mystarra >>Leader of the Great Reformation >>Twit, and brownoser, trying to score brownie points after all his own flames. Huh? I am not trying to score 'brownie points', T$R can go screaming into the core of Hell tied down with all those unsold "Women of Fantasy Calendars"! Winniger and I may not agree on much (maybe nothing at all). But all those flames I got taught me one thing, how brain-dead people are if they flame on stupid reasons. If you don't understand that, then go back and play your 390th level CN minotaur/Power Ranger- I don't have time to deal with you. >>Email: MHickey@Academic.STU.StThomasU.Ca Nightshade Prophet of the Anti-T$R Warmaster of the Revolutionary Army of Mystarra Leader of the Great Reformation Email: MHickey@Academic.STU.StThomasU.Ca Article: 48305 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!uunet!newstf01.cr1.aol.com!search01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: winningerr@aol.com (WinningerR) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Date: 7 Sep 1994 18:07:10 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 13 Sender: news@search01.news.aol.com Message-ID: <34ldie$fij@search01.news.aol.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: search01.news.aol.com In article , briareos@landshark.micro.umn.edu (Cisco Lopez-Fresquet) writes: >>>TSR's "altruistic" act of setting up a site for us to post to is not acceptable, becuse in order to post to it, we must allow TSR to CENSOR our postings.<<< When exactly did TSR say anything about "censoring" your ideas? Even if TSR does screen "undesirable submissions" (something they've never stated they'll do, BTW, all speculation notwithstanding), there's no reason why you can't "genericize" your material using the guidelines they so kindly furnished and then upload it to anyone in any way you desire. Article: 48311 of rec.games.frp.dnd Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!uunet!unify!caa From: caa@unify.com (Chris Anderson) Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Message-ID: Sender: news@Unify.com Nntp-Posting-Host: fantasy.sac.unify.com Organization: Unify Corporation, Sacramento, California References: <34ina7$a9d@cae.cad.gatech.edu> <34jm6a$2nj@search01.news.aol.com> Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 22:10:19 GMT Lines: 27 According to Rob Repp : > In article <34jm6a$2nj@search01.news.aol.com>, winningerr@aol.com > (WinningerR) wrote: > > > In article <34ina7$a9d@cae.cad.gatech.edu>, vapspcx@cad.gatech.edu (S. > > Keith Graham) writes: > > > > >>>Note that they just explicitly outlawed distribution of characters, > > house rules, or modules between any two people. > > > > Thank you T$R. I'll tell my DM that he can't have a copy of my character > > for his records from now on.<<< > > > > No, they specifically DIDN'T outlaw such use. "Any two people" is hardly > > "the general public" just as "my gaming group" is hardly "the general > > public." > > > > >>>Drow were not created by T$R, just as trivia.<<< > > > > They were created by? > > ...TSR. Wrong. Dark elves are part of a number of myth cycles; "drow" specifically come from Welsh/Celtic. Chris Article: 48322 of rec.games.frp.dnd Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!uunet!unify!caa From: caa@unify.com (Chris Anderson) Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Message-ID: Sender: news@Unify.com Nntp-Posting-Host: fantasy.sac.unify.com Organization: Unify Corporation, Sacramento, California References: <34j3e6$goq@jaws.cs.hmc.edu> <34jmdt$2p7@search01.news.aol.com> Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 22:31:46 GMT Lines: 30 According to WinningerR : > In article <34j3e6$goq@jaws.cs.hmc.edu>, mbostwic@chs.cusd.claremont.edu > writes: > > >>>I don't get this, why can T$R copyright all of this material > and say on the cover, that if you don't understand something, "make > it up!" They keep on telling us that we can not distribute our own > ideas, have fun with makeing up new rules, and have fun with the > "roleplaying experence."<<< > > They are not saying you can't make up new rules, etc. They are saying that > if you want to share these ideas with the "general public," you must > follow their rules. In other words, they fully understand that half the > fun of roleplaying games is sharing. Now, they're trying to work out ways > that you can share without jeopardizing their rights. > > Why is MPGNet, AOL, and the promise to eventually bring "mirror sites" on > line not enough? Because the alternative is a general, unnamed threat that they can't back up. I dislike a company who joins a group, decides they don't like something, and starts throwing orders around with absolutely nothing to back them up. It's bad PR at the least. I used to be an ardent T$R supporter, but the T$R that I knew is dead. It died when EGG left, I guess. Back to M:tG. 'Bye, T$R. Chris Article: 48330 of rec.games.frp.dnd Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!Germany.EU.net!news.dfn.de!news.belwue.de!news.uni-ulm.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!stepsun.uni-kl.de!uklirb.informatik.uni-kl.de!informatik.uni-kl.de!stschulz From: stschulz@informatik.uni-kl.de (Stephan Schulz) Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Message-ID: <1994Sep7.214216.16753@uklirb.informatik.uni-kl.de> Sender: news@uklirb.informatik.uni-kl.de (Unix-News-System) Nntp-Posting-Host: isis.informatik.uni-kl.de Organization: University of Kaiserslautern, Germany References: <34j56u$9v4@lynx.dac.neu.edu> <34j7mt$dgj@nntp.interaccess.com> Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 21:42:16 GMT Lines: 29 In article <34j7mt$dgj@nntp.interaccess.com>, thanatos@psycfrnd.interaccess.com (Timothy Toner) writes: |> In article <34j56u$9v4@lynx.dac.neu.edu>, |> Thomas Farrell wrote: |> >Oh, by the way, I'd like to announce to the world at large that I will |> >be creating a new role playing game system. |> [...] |> >I intend to make it available on the |> >internet for free. I will probably copyright the material, and will then |> >make it available for free use. |> |> Sorry to be the crasher of your good will, but you can't have it both |> ways. Either it's 100% Copyrighted, or 100% Public Domain. In essence, |> it means that once it's in the public domain, you have NO control on |> how it's used. TSR could paste it in a book (don't worry, they won't) |> and make a zillion bucks (look at all the freeware distributors. In |> effect, they're just making the copy available), and you'd be powerless. Of course either something is either copyrighted or public domain. However, the holder of the copyright can give any rights he want to anybody, including the general public. Look at the GNU general public license for an example. Stephan -------------------------- It can be done! --------------------------------- Please email me as stschulz@informatik.uni-kl.de (Stephan Schulz) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article: 48334 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!superdec.uni.uiuc.edu!tskirvin From: tskirvin@superdec.uni.uiuc.edu (Tim Skirvin) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Date: 8 Sep 1994 02:01:14 GMT Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Lines: 29 Message-ID: <34lr9a$qdi@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> References: <34j56u$9v4@lynx.dac.neu.edu> <34jmhi$2q7@search01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: superdec.uni.uiuc.edu winningerr@aol.com (WinningerR) writes: >In article <34j56u$9v4@lynx.dac.neu.edu>, tfarrell@lynx.dac.neu.edu >(Thomas Farrell) writes: >>>>I feel that I will have to think it over again. I'm not sure I want to >use your game world if I can't write my own additions to it and give them >to my friends.<<< >Unless your friends constitute the "general public" no one ever said you >couldn't give them your additions to the Realms. Let's be reasonable here. My friends aren't the general public now. Then who ARE they? Understand this. If you're going to outlaw it in quantities, then it's outlawed in one-on-one. You have made it impossible to distribute anything TSR with this policy. Period. (And you wonder why I'm boycotting.) - Tim Skirvin -- ------Tim Skirvin (tskirvin@superdec.uni.uiuc.edu)------ "Now I realize that technically speaking that's only one flaw but I thought it was such a big one it was worth mentioning twice." -- Kryten, Red Dwarf (Holoship) Article: 48347 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!uunet!gatech!purdue!yuma!lamar.ColoState.EDU!not-for-mail From: venkman@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Michael Mezo) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Date: 7 Sep 1994 21:06:47 -0600 Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO 80523 Lines: 64 Message-ID: <34lv47$1bas@lamar.ColoState.EDU> References: <34j56u$9v4@lynx.dac.neu.edu> <34kut6$6brd@lamar.ColoState.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: lamar.acns.colostate.edu In article mhickey@academic.stu.StThomasU.ca (Matthew Hickey) writes: >In article <34kut6$6brd@lamar.ColoState.EDU> venkman@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Michael Mezo) writes: >>> He says the same damn thing because you complain about the same damn >>>thing over and over again. Ask the same question and you will receive the >>>same answer. >>> >>Really, wow, I didn't notice my name amongst all those posts he was replying >>to earlier today. You'll forgive me for the ignorance in my own posting. > This wasn't directed personally at you. Just at everyone who say >the same thing twenty times on thirty different threads about the same >subject. Case in point: Winninger's all caps declaration a while back about >T$R not threatening to close down this newsgroup. > Oh, wasn't directed at _me_ personally. Interesting usage of the pronoun 'you' you have there. But I'm not talking 'you' personally there, not if 'you' might heavens forbid, flame me for it. 'You' should learn how to direct your topic better than, if 'you' are going to respond to someone, tell them ''you' complain about the same damn thing...' I guess I am just a novice with 'your' english language... > >>>Nightshade >>>Prophet of the Anti-T$R >>>Warmaster of the Revolutionary Army of Mystarra >>>Leader of the Great Reformation >>>Twit, and brownoser, trying to score brownie points after all his own flames. > > Huh? I am not trying to score 'brownie points', T$R can go >screaming into the core of Hell tied down with all those unsold "Women of >Fantasy Calendars"! Winniger and I may not agree on much (maybe nothing at >all). But all those flames I got taught me one thing, how brain-dead people >are if they flame on stupid reasons. If you don't understand that, then go ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 'You' don't do things like that? Hrm... what was that bt above? I'ld call it a flame for my telling Winninger to reply to one message only if he's going to essentailly say the same thing repeatedly... 'you' then accused me of saying the same damn thing repeated... did 'you' really learn anything from your flames? >back and play your 390th level CN minotaur/Power Ranger- I don't have time >to deal with you. > Ooooh, I forgot, you don't flame, 'you' learned better than to do that. I love how you immediately assumed I would play a 300+ level humanoid character... What was our first clue, hrm... perhaps that I wanted people to show some sense and not reply to 5+ posts with essentially the same statement? Wait... that doesnt make sense... or does it make perfect sense to 'you'? > >>>Email: MHickey@Academic.STU.StThomasU.Ca > > >Nightshade >Prophet of the Anti-T$R >Warmaster of the Revolutionary Army of Mystarra >Leader of the Great Reformation >Twit flamer, with pronoun trouble. > >Email: MHickey@Academic.STU.StThomasU.Ca Galen Article: 48348 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!gatech!purdue!mozo.cc.purdue.edu!biomac7ae.bio.purdue.edu!user From: pmeunier@bilbo.bio.purdue.edu (Pascal Meunier) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Followup-To: rec.games.frp.dnd Date: Wed, 07 Sep 1994 22:15:49 -0500 Organization: Purdue University Lines: 32 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: biomac7ae.bio.purdue.edu In article , mobius@Mercury.mcs.com (Rob Repp) wrote: > PLEASE REPOST - OFFICIAL CORPORATE STATEMENT > > > >REGARDING TRADEMARKED AND COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL USED ON-LINE: > TSR is now an active member of the on-line gaming community. Since > Day-One, TSR products and artwork have been developed by creative people > employed or hired by TSR. This has resulted in the creation of an > extensive line of products, identities, names, rules, game mechanics, > logos, and standards of quality, to name a few. The gaming products, > novels, and publications are designed to encourage resourcefulness and > creativity in play. All of these created properties are owned by TSR > through national trademarks and copyrights which protect their publication > electronically or published on paper. When they are published by anyone > other than TSR, Inc. or their licensees, this publication becomes an > infringement to TSR trademarks and copyrights. > Let me make an analogy: when Microsoft gives you a license to use Word and create documents with it, they don't have any copyrights on what you write. Why do you think that by using AD&D mechanics you have copyrights on what we write? You have a copyright on the game mechanics, but not on what is produced with them. When you published the game mechanics with the explicit purpose of having people design their own adventures, you thereby gave them permission to publish them. Imagine if those who have the copyright on the PCR reaction had automatically a copyright on any gene amplified by that technique! You are nuts. Pascal Meunier Article: 48349 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!uunet!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!news.hal.COM!darkstar.UCSC.EDU!noether.UCSC.EDU!noc From: noc@noether.UCSC.EDU (Mark Nockleby) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Date: 8 Sep 1994 04:22:52 GMT Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz Lines: 26 Message-ID: <34m3is$qmm@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> References: <34j56u$9v4@lynx.dac.neu.edu> <34jmhi$2q7@search01.news.aol.com> <34lr9a$qdi@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: noether.ucsc.edu X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #5 (NOV) In <34lr9a$qdi@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> tskirvin@superdec.uni.uiuc.edu (Tim Skirvin) writes: > Understand this. If you're going to outlaw it in quantities, >then it's outlawed in one-on-one. You have made it impossible to >distribute anything TSR with this policy. Period. My understanding of copyright law is that TSR retains the rights over their copyrighted works (which include the rights to creating derivative works). If TSR chooses to give players of the game the ability to create derivative works for use in playing the game at home and at local gaming clubs, then players can do that. If TSR chooses to give people the option of creating derivative works and placing them on an internet archive (such as ftp.mpgn.com) as long as a disclaimer is stamped on the derivative work, then people are allowed to do just that. If TSR chooses not to give people the option of publishing derivatives works willy nilly, then I guess people with just have to live with it. Isn't that what a copyright is all about? Isn't copyright the right to say how and where and who may publish or copy copyrighted works and their derivatives? -mark. -- "But I like to think that when something disturbs me that it is important" -- Steven Jesse Bernstein. noc@noether.ucsc.edu Article: 48353 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!uunet!news.claremont.edu!chs.cusd.claremont.edu!mbostwic From: mbostwic@chs.cusd.claremont.edu Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Date: 8 Sep 1994 05:22:30 GMT Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont CA Lines: 78 Message-ID: <34m72m$rvr@jaws.cs.hmc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: chs.cusd.claremont.edu Originator: mbostwic@chs.cusd.claremont.edu > RE: COPYRIGHT POLICY > >> Understand this. If you're going to outlaw it in quantities, >>then it's outlawed in one-on-one. You have made it impossible to >>distribute anything TSR with this policy. Period. > >My understanding of copyright law is that TSR retains the rights over >their copyrighted works (which include the rights to creating derivative >works). If TSR chooses to give players of the game the ability >to create derivative works for use in playing the game at home >and at local gaming clubs, then players can do that. If TSR chooses >to give people the option of creating derivative works and placing them >on an internet archive (such as ftp.mpgn.com) as long as a disclaimer >is stamped on the derivative work, then people are allowed to do just that. >If TSR chooses not to give people the option of publishing derivatives >works willy nilly, then I guess people with just have to live with it. >Isn't that what a copyright is all about? Isn't copyright the right >to say how and where and who may publish or copy copyrighted works >and their derivatives? > >-mark. Doe! This is what I was hopeing people didn't say. This is not about T$R having the copyright on they're piece of work. This is about our piece of work! If we created it, and have some dim slight glimer (just a tad) of T$R's Fighter class, then do they get to turn us in, 'cause of that?! No I think not! Let me remind all of you T$R said it themselves. "If you don't understand something, make it up!" When you say something like this, then it could aply to anything. "I don't understand why this spell wasn't in the game." Companies like Coca~Cola don't get mad when other magazines mention the word Coca~Cola. Why should T$R feel the same way? I bet that some, (may be most) of they're ideas don't even come from the "game-makers" themselves. They probably came from some readers who mailed they're complaints\wants\needs, in to T$R. T$R then in reply, said "hey! what a good idea." And then something like kits were formed. T$R even said themselves that they got a lot of info. from readers and that's how they created 2 ed. I think that us posting ANYTHING up on the net isn't gona' make that much diffrence wheter you are going to buy anything of T$Rs or not. I mean even if read someones comments of planescape, that isn't gona' make that much diffrence, because if you didn't have internet you would have used some magazine to make your choice. (Like that DRAGON MAG.). I don't want to "jump all over" T$R or anything, it's just that they have goten a little to big for they're britches. They think that they can push around people, but they can not. Deep down inside, they know sueing everyone isn't going to make a diffrence. Pushing around people like us isn't going to make a diffrence anyway. They know we can distribute stuff, with out they're permition. Even if they are able to get a hold of this copyright, that would just turn them into "little police-men". They would have to go sueing anyone who did anything that infringed on they're copyright. And then that would just turn BAD. They wouldn't be a real roleplaying corperation, they would just be something like a dead broke company in CP 2020 (well not really). In the end, they (T$R) knows that they are going to lose some how. So why bother! A said reader of T$R formerly TSR before they got 2nd ed.: ;( /mAtT/ / (mbostwic@chs.cusd.claremont.edu) -- < < < < < < < <|"I think about all the ways I've screwed up and < < < < < < < < | what I'd give for one clear chance to wipe the < < < < < < < < | slate clean. To dig my way out of the numb, grey < < < < <| hell I've made of my life." -Dwight, Frank Miller Article: 48354 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!uunet!news.claremont.edu!chs.cusd.claremont.edu!mbostwic From: mbostwic@chs.cusd.claremont.edu Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Date: 8 Sep 1994 05:31:18 GMT Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont CA Lines: 56 Message-ID: <34m7j6$s81@jaws.cs.hmc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: chs.cusd.claremont.edu Originator: mbostwic@chs.cusd.claremont.edu > Reply to: Pascal Meunier > > RE: COPYRIGHT POLICY > > Wed, 07 Sep 1994 22:15:49 -0500 > Purdue University > Newsgroups: > rec.games.frp.dnd > Reply to newsgroup(s) > References: > >In article , >mobius@Mercury.mcs.com (Rob Repp) wrote: > >Let me make an analogy: when Microsoft gives you a license to use Word and >create documents with it, they don't have any copyrights on what you write. > Why do you think that by using AD&D mechanics you have copyrights on what >we write? You have a copyright on the game mechanics, but not on what is >produced with them. > >When you published the game mechanics with the explicit purpose of having >people design their own adventures, you thereby gave them permission to >publish them. Imagine if those who have the copyright on the PCR reaction >had automatically a copyright on any gene amplified by that technique! You >are nuts. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CUT HERE CUT HERE CUT HERE CUT HERE CUT HERE Oh my gosh!!! Some one who is soooo right!!!! I havn't seen some one that is this right in a long time!!!! You don't know how right this guy is! This guy has told the basic fact of what T$R really did. Hey T$R cut here and paste this on all of your frigerators!!! a person who needed to blow off a LOT of steam.... /mAtT/ / (mbostwic@chs.cusd.claremont.edu) PS: IF you were wondering why I wrote CUT HERE so many times.... It was so T$R needs to be told the same thing over, and over, and over, and over, and over. PPS: IF you were wondering why I wrote CUT HERE so many times.... It was so T$R needs to be told the same thing over, and over, and over, and over, and over. -- < < < < < < < <|"I think about all the ways I've screwed up and < < < < < < < < | what I'd give for one clear chance to wipe the < < < < < < < < | slate clean. To dig my way out of the numb, grey < < < < <| hell I've made of my life." -Dwight, Frank Miller Article: 48355 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!uunet!newstf01.cr1.aol.com!search01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: winningerr@aol.com (WinningerR) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Date: 8 Sep 1994 01:44:02 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 8 Sender: news@search01.news.aol.com Message-ID: <34m8b2$nu4@search01.news.aol.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: search01.news.aol.com In article , caa@unify.com (Chris Anderson) writes: >>>Wrong. Dark elves are part of a number of myth cycles; "drow" specifically come from Welsh/Celtic.<<< Not trying to flame here, I'm just very interested in this subject. Does anyone know which Welsh/Celtic works speak of "drow?" Article: 48356 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!newstf01.cr1.aol.com!search01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: winningerr@aol.com (WinningerR) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Date: 8 Sep 1994 01:48:03 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 13 Sender: news@search01.news.aol.com Message-ID: <34m8ij$o0b@search01.news.aol.com> References: <34lr9a$qdi@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: search01.news.aol.com In article <34lr9a$qdi@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, tskirvin@superdec.uni.uiuc.edu (Tim Skirvin) writes: >>>Understand this. If you're going to outlaw it in quantities, then it's outlawed in one-on-one. You have made it impossible to distribute anything TSR with this policy. Period. <<< Once again, the policy says no such thing. Yes your friends are members of the general public, but they hardly CONSTITUTE the general public. If you have a problem with this concept, than you have a problem with copyright laws in general. Are you arguing that there should be NO copyrights? Article: 48357 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!uunet!newstf01.cr1.aol.com!search01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: winningerr@aol.com (WinningerR) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Date: 8 Sep 1994 01:55:08 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 31 Sender: news@search01.news.aol.com Message-ID: <34m8vs$o3l@search01.news.aol.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: search01.news.aol.com In article , pmeunier@bilbo.bio.purdue.edu (Pascal Meunier) writes: >>>Let me make an analogy: when Microsoft gives you a license to use Word and create documents with it, they don't have any copyrights on what you write. Why do you think that by using AD&D mechanics you have copyrights on what we write? You have a copyright on the game mechanics, but not on what is produced with them.<<< Uhhh, this again. The Microsoft Word analogy just doesn't hold up. There are no characters in Microsoft Word, no stories, no unique locales. If you use any of TSR's proprietary characters, stories, or unique locales, you are violating their copyrights (and an "umber hulk" is a character, BTW -- though things like elves and dwarves are clearly owned by the general public). If you want to upload such material, you must include TSR's disclaimer. If, however, your upload doesn't use TSR's proprietary characters, etc., forget the disclaimer and the whole policy! In this case, you should probably resort to the various strategies TSR's lawyers offered to disguise the source of your game mechanics, etc. It may or may not be illegal to ignore this advice, but why bother? If your reasonably effective, anybody who reads your material will be able to translate it into D&D effortlessly. Article: 48358 of rec.games.frp.dnd Path: news.tuwien.ac.at!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!uunet!newstf01.cr1.aol.com!search01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: winningerr@aol.com (WinningerR) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT POLICY Date: 8 Sep 1994 02:00:06 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 24 Sender: news@search01.news.aol.com Message-ID: <34m996$o6i@search01.news.aol.com> References: <34m72m$rvr@jaws.cs.hmc.edu> In article <34m72m$rvr@jaws.cs.hmc.edu>, mbostwic@chs.cusd.claremont.edu writes: >>>This is not about T$R having the copyright on they're piece of work. This is about our piece of work! If we created it, and have some dim slight glimer (just a tad) of T$R's Fighter class, then do they get to turn us in, 'cause of that?! No I think not! Let me remind all of you T$R said it themselves. "If you don't understand something, make it up!" When you say something like this, then it could aply to anything. "I don't understand why this spell wasn't in the game."<<< TSR never said you needed to place the disclaimer on every single piece of writing in which a fantasy fighter appears. >>>Companies like Coca~Cola don't get mad when other magazines mention the word Coca~Cola. Why should T$R feel the same way?<<< That's not true, actually. There are times when magazines mention "Coca Cola" and makes the company very mad. TSR's reaction pales next to what you'd see from Coca Cola if anyone tried to send their secret formulas, etc. over the Internet. How exactly is TSR "pushing us around?" By allowing us to upload files containing their property?